Wiring help please!

[billb]

Hi there,

I'm not really even sure where to start with this, other than - help!

I want to build a bass that outputs 2 completely separate, active signals - one to send to a bass amp and another that I'll probably put into a guitar amp. I'm thinking that I need to do this through a stereo cable output from the bass which splits into two mono jacks. However, I'd also like an alternative option of just using a normal mono output that brings everything together into one signal (if I only have 1 amp available or forget the stereo cord). This setup is based on the "Ric-o-sound" setup from Rickenbacker that uses 2 jacks, one stereo and one mono, and you just plug into the one you want. But if there's another way to do it any suggestions are welcome!

I've managed to get hold of the pickup and preamp bits and pieces I want to use, now I just need to work out how the hell to bring them together into the outputs!

The first signal path is an active P/J set out of an American Deluxe P bass. It has volume, balance, three-band EQ (treble, bass and mid boost/cut), plus a toggle switch to choose active or passive EQ.

The second signal path is an Entwhistle X3-B bridge pickup that I'm going to put right near the neck and run through a Belcat 2 band active preamp.

I'm assuming that I can connect all this to one dual (18v) battery compartment?

So, any advice on how to do all this would be most appreciated! Each of the individual signal paths should be reasonably straightforward, but I'm struggling trying to work out how to bring the 2 paths together into the stereo output while also having the mono option.

I wouldn;t normally be this ambitious but this is actually a practice build so I can build a similar thing for my brother-in-law's 45th birthday next year. The main difference with his set up is that he wants passive pickups - Rickenbackers in one path and a P as the other. But I figure that if I can do all this with actives then his passive set up should be easy. That and if this works it should be great fun to play :)

Any help, suggestions, issues to consider etc.will be very much appreciated!

Thanks

Bill

[wazkelly]

Hi Bill, I played around with stereo setups about 32 years ago when I had a Ric 4001 and also wired up my fretless yammy BB1000 stereo too. Unfortunately both those Basses were sold long ago but bought a Ric 4003 12 months ago and loving the flexibility of playing mono or stereo with it.

To wire same as Ric-o-sound where you have 2 jacks may not be so easy and suggest waiting for Scott aka Weirdbits to drop by and offer some advice. Either way you will need a stereo output jack and a splitter to run 2 cables to the separate channels or separate amps. On my yammy I replaced the mono jack with a stereo, dropped the tone control and ran with 2 x volumes instead. Doesn't help if to want to play mono as only 1 PUP is in the mix, can't remember which one but it comes down to what is wired to the tip I think. Splitters are not too expensive and I bought one for less than $20 at a local music store.

Cheers, Waz

[billb]

Thanks Waz, that Yammy sounds like it would have been very interesting!
& I can but dream of a new 4003 :)
Any chance of a pic?

[wazkelly]

Thanks Waz, that Yammy sounds like it would have been very interesting!
& I can but dream of a new 4003 :)
Any chance of a pic?

19655

In the middle of editing a video demonstrating mono & stereo and should have that posted sometime this weekend.

[billb]

Beautiful!

[WeirdBits]

All passive is the easier option if you want both stereo and mono jacks, and a switched stereo jack would probably be the simplest solution. When a stereo plug is in you'd get your separate channels, pull the stereo plug out and both passive circuits would go to the mono jack.

Your active plans are more problematic as you're essentially wanting to mix the output from two separate preamps into a single mono output when mono is selected. Power switching via the jack(s) for the preamps (as you normally do) plus having the stereo/mono switching and combining two preamp signals for the mono output makes things difficult.

[billb]

Thanks Scott.
Would the active option be doable using a jack switch like this to allow dual channel output and power switching for the preamps:
http://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_Electronics/Components_and_Parts/Jacks/9-lug_Stereo_Jack.html

then, rather than trying to have a mono and a single output jack, just have the stereo jack outputting the 2 individual channels and, when I want to use a mono output, running both output channels into something like a Boss LS-2 pedal which can be used as a 2 channel mixer to blend the two signals into a mono output?

Other than that it sounds like just doing it all as a passive setup would be the easiest option.

Thanks again
Bill

[WeirdBits]

That's the type of switched stereo jack I was thinking of for the passive option (with a separate jack for mono).

With your active two preamp layout it's a little more complicated. As you suggest, you could have it set up permanently as stereo with an external pedal mixer when you want mono, but if someone ever inserted a mono plug it would short the output of one preamp to ground. You could possibly add a stereo/mono switch which when in mono mode would disable one preamp and connect the pickup to the other preamp (along with the other pickups). Or, possibly add a bit of custom circuitry that detects the short between ring and sleeve when a mono plug is inserted and automatically switches to a mono configuration (outside my wheelhouse). However, separate jacks may still be a better option for your active layout too.

[Simon Barden]

On another forum I frequent, somebody wanted to use an LS-2 to act as a mixer for two guitars - so similar as acting as a mixer for the two outputs. However, while this is possible, somebody who had tried it said that the LS-2 was far too noisy for this application.

I haven't got one so can't comment, but if you already have one, it's worth trying to see what the noise level is like when you've got two guitars plugged into the two return sockets (not the main input). In the A+B Mix/Bypass mode setting, you can input two signals via the A and B return sockets and mix them using the two level control knobs. When in bypass, you won't hear anything from those two inputs but will hear whatever's plugged into the LS-2's main input. If that's likely to be nothing, it may be well to make up a jack plug with the tip and sleeve shorted so that you get silence (rather than the noise picked and hum up by an open cable), so the LS-2 acts as a mute switch when in bypass.

If it sounds like it's adding a lot of noise, then you may be better off running through a passive mixer.

[billb]

Thanks for your time Weirdy and Simon, most appreciated!

Currently tossing up whether I just go straight passive; or
I keep the two preamps but run them into two completely separate, mono, output jacks,then just tape two mono cables together and run one to each amp/pedal setup. If I want a single signal I can plug them both into the LS2 (which had minimal hum) or a really basic passive ABY box like this http://www.swamp.net.au/alctron-guitar-a-b-amp-switch-y-splitter-signal-router.
I assume I'd have to provide separate power to each path but I've got a double battery cavity routed out.

Ah well,more to think about :)