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Andy40
22-04-2017, 04:11 PM
Hey Guys.

I am a novice pedal builder but have a burning desire to demystify the ever elusive guitar pedal.

I have build a couple of basic boost and fizz pedals (I'll share when i have time), and now its time to up the stakes.

This weekend I'm attempting to start my take on the Madbean Snarkdoodle (Overdrive Pedal). apparently its based on the Way Huge Red Llama.

No, i am not ordering the PCB or any of the parts as a kit. I'm pointing this out of the ballpark and attempting to etch my own board and source all of the parts from my local Jaycar supplier.

The Build of Materials, Schematics and PCB layout can be easily downloaded from Madbeanpedals.com

188691887018871


Stay tuned kids:cool:

Kick
22-04-2017, 04:14 PM
Thumbs up! :)

stan
22-04-2017, 05:46 PM
Wow, cool project, truly hand built

DrNomis_44
22-04-2017, 06:59 PM
Awesome...Madbean has lots of other pedal designs on his website, he used to be a member of another forum that I used to frequent a few years ago, he's quite knowledgeable, I've built a pedal called the Grunt Box (basically a Big Muff) and it sounded pretty good, I think I still have the PCB somewhere amongst all my bits and pieces.

gavinturner
22-04-2017, 07:57 PM
Amazing project Andy, can't wait to hear how she sounds.

cheers,
Gv.

DrNomis_44
22-04-2017, 09:36 PM
I've been seriously thinking of doing a DIY 4-Knob Tube Driver pedal build, I've built one in the past but it was a bit of a pain to cram all the circuitry into the small diecast box I used, so this time round I'm going to use a bigger diecast box same like the one I used for the Doctor Overdrive pedal, but I'll need to wait till I can buy all the parts for it though.

Might see if I can document the build-process with a write-up and some pics.

Andy40
23-04-2017, 07:22 AM
Etching

So printed the PCB layout onto magazine paper (found a use for 50million wife magazines!). I just had to tape paper on the top and sides so that it would go through the printer.
1888118882

Then using the wife's iron (ha ha chauvanist) I transferred the image onto copper electroplate. Then soaked and removed the magazine paper.....it came out a bit dodgy, so i had to fix it with marker.

18884

Then, ammonium Persulfated off the copper and voila

1888518886

gavinturner
23-04-2017, 07:25 AM
Nice work Andy! You're providing a template for the rest of us to do this properly. Great work - keep the details coming!

cheers,
Gav.

Andy40
23-04-2017, 07:36 AM
Hey Gav,

Thanks good to see you back on the forum mate.

Andy40
23-04-2017, 01:55 PM
Cleaned with Epoxy Thinner (its just brutal trying to clean with turps) and drilled.

18892

DrNomis_44
23-04-2017, 02:02 PM
Cleaned with Epoxy Thinner (its just brutal trying to clean with turps) and drilled.

18892


Methylated Spirits seems to work pretty well when used to clean all the resist off a PCB, it's also good for cleaning residual solder flux resin too.

I've also found that you can use an Exacto knife to fix up any unintentional bridging between solder pads, or other copper tracks on the circuit board too.

wazkelly
24-04-2017, 07:42 PM
G'day Andy.

Either your have more time or patience than me to be taking on such a task.

Has any booked the post project therapy sessions yet haha?

Cheers, Waz

mjg
25-04-2017, 12:18 PM
Hey Andy,

Props to you for rocking it old skool. I'll generally just use perfboard, or buy a PCB these days.

I am tempted to do some etching on aluminium to make the front of the enclosures for pedals... will have to give that a try one day when I have access to a laser printer.

Dedman
25-04-2017, 03:57 PM
trying really hard to ignore this entire section as I really don't need a new obsession. Note I did say "trying"

Andy40
25-04-2017, 04:17 PM
You should really give it a go Deddy, it would help on the times you have to stay inside.

See how for the rabbit hole can go bwwahhahahahahaha;)

Had some time to mark my parts (I'm slightly color blind so it helps)
18933


and have two attempts at breadboarding (both failed). I'll diagnose on a another day.

18934

Dedman
25-04-2017, 04:19 PM
GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN! er I mean Andy!

Andy40
25-04-2017, 04:22 PM
:eek: (nudge nudge)

Simon Barden
25-04-2017, 05:27 PM
You can get resistance code reader apps for your phone, if that helps with the colour blindness thing, Andy.

wazkelly
25-04-2017, 06:23 PM
My eldest son is red/green colour blind and thankfully he ended up as a Mechanical Engineer as he would have struggled big time if he wanted to do Electrical Engineering instead.

Just adds a bit more degree of difficulty to your new found indoors hobby.

Pre-made pedals are really, really cheap these days...... and so are Valve Amps too as I reckon that is where you will end up next.

stan
25-04-2017, 07:15 PM
Some nice work there Andy - this whole guitar pedal, amp thing is just getting out of hand haha... some forum member will be making their own tubes next...

Simon Barden
25-04-2017, 07:22 PM
Interesting idea there. I have a mate who used to be a glass-blower for a living...

stan
25-04-2017, 07:28 PM
Interesting idea there. I have a mate who used to be a glass-blower for a living...
Just need a bike pump and some wires and plates haha

stan
25-04-2017, 07:29 PM
Interesting idea there. I have a mate who used to be a glass-blower for a living...

Actually he could probably make some really cool art pieces for guitar heads that looked like tubes...

Simon Barden
25-04-2017, 07:46 PM
Unfortunately it was for a veterinary research lab, which has since closed, so he doesn't have a furnace/forge any more.

DrNomis_44
25-04-2017, 11:32 PM
You should really give it a go Deddy, it would help on the times you have to stay inside.

See how for the rabbit hole can go bwwahhahahahahaha;)

Had some time to mark my parts (I'm slightly color blind so it helps)
18933


and have two attempts at breadboarding (both failed). I'll diagnose on a another day.

18934


Hey Andy40, I'll let you in on a secret, I happen to be colourblind too (Red/Green deficient), had it properly diagnosed by an eye specialist some years ago when I did some work-experience with an Electrician when I was younger.

Simon Barden
25-04-2017, 11:38 PM
So. bomb disposal as a career wasn't an option then? ;)

DrNomis_44
26-04-2017, 01:27 AM
So. bomb disposal as a career wasn't an option then? ;)


Lol....yep, would have been terrible for me if I made the mistake of cutting the brown wire instead of the red one, or the green wire instead of the orange one, I have trouble distinguishing red from brown, and green from orange, on the other hand, I can distinguish blues with no problem.

Simon Barden
26-04-2017, 01:29 AM
on the other hand, I can distinguish blues with no problem.
Typically a I, IV, V progression over a repeating 12-bar phrase, but with many variations.

DrNomis_44
26-04-2017, 01:34 AM
Typically a I, IV, V progression over a repeating 12-bar phrase, but with many variations.


Hahahaha, knowing me I'd probably include some very weird note-choices, and then the drummer,bassist, lead guitarist, and vocalist would all focus their eyes on me with a look of bemusement, then I'd realize that I'd forgotten to plug the guitar in, but I digress....hahahaha.

Simon Barden
26-04-2017, 05:24 AM
"I didn't wake up this mornin'..."

DrNomis_44
26-04-2017, 07:32 AM
"I didn't wake up this mornin'..."


"Cause I was still in lala-land".....um.....er.....that won't work,...will it?.....*thinks really really hard while scratching head*....eh....ah...I can't tell.....ah what the hey, another one for the "too hard" basket.....hahahaha......but I must finish it someday....lol.

Andy40
26-04-2017, 03:01 PM
Typically a I, IV, V progression over a repeating 12-bar phrase, but with many variations.

badah boom tish!

Thats a good idea about the app Simon too. I usually just use the multimeter and then label them so i don't forget.

mjg
27-04-2017, 06:38 AM
I'd been wondering how someone with colour blindness would handle resistor values. Now I know!

I usually order my resistors in lots of 10 or more, so they come on paper strips or in little bags. I label the strips / bags and leave them all together, then order the bags into a plastic tray by the values, so all the 10k-99k are together, 100k-999k are together, etc. That makes it easier to find things. If I want a certain value resistor I know which tray compartment to look in, and pull out the bag with the value... sometimes I'll do a quick double check before soldering it in, but for the most part I trust my filing system.

DrNomis_44
27-04-2017, 07:12 AM
I'd been wondering how someone with colour blindness would handle resistor values. Now I know!

I usually order my resistors in lots of 10 or more, so they come on paper strips or in little bags. I label the strips / bags and leave them all together, then order the bags into a plastic tray by the values, so all the 10k-99k are together, 100k-999k are together, etc. That makes it easier to find things. If I want a certain value resistor I know which tray compartment to look in, and pull out the bag with the value... sometimes I'll do a quick double check before soldering it in, but for the most part I trust my filing system.



The way I handle resistor values is really simple, I just use my digital multimeter to measure them before I solder them in, also, using a X10 magnifier helps too.

DrNomis_44
29-04-2017, 10:31 AM
Hey Andy40, if you're having any trouble with any of your pedal build projects feel free to pm me whenever you like and I'll be only too happy to help you out as much as I can mate.

Andy40
29-04-2017, 04:04 PM
I want to bread board it before I populate the PCB.

3rd re-build on the breadboard from scratch and its still not working, starting to wonder whether the circuit isn't good. :mad:

mjg
29-04-2017, 04:19 PM
Hey Andy,

I've eyeballed the schematic that you posted, and it looks ok at a glance.

If possible, post a pic of the breadboard you've populated, someone might spot something. Also, do you have an audio probe that you can use to follow the signal through the schematic, that might pinpoint the issue. Eg check you have signal after r2, then c1, then pin 3 of the IC, then pin 2, etc, and follow the path along until you find where you have no signal.

Also check you have 0v on pin 8, and around 9v on pin 1, using your multimeter.

Andy40
30-04-2017, 06:39 AM
Fourth time lucky....

would you believe?:eek:
19047
Thank the electronic gods...i needed a win.

Sounds pretty good, my only complaint is that it totally craps out if the gain is turned up to full. Clearly the circuit cannot handle it.

It might have something to do with my substitute parts.

First, I used a CMOS IC 4049 (Hex Buffer) instead of a CD4049UBE as the IC;
Second, I used a 1N4004 instead of a 1N5817 as the Diode.
The rest of the components are about the same.

If anyone has any ideas about how I can limit (smooth out) the gain, let me know.

mjg
30-04-2017, 07:30 AM
Hi Andy,

The 'U' in the IC name means that it's an inverting buffer, so that might have an effect on the sound - I'm not sure. It may end up sounding the same anyway!

The diode I don't think matters - it looks like it's just there for power supply protection, so it won't change the sound.

If you want to play with the gain, try changing R3 to either 50k or 200k, see which way you need to go to make it work for you. Or try a different pot value for the gain pot. Maybe a 500k would work better for you. Experiment and see. :)

mjg
30-04-2017, 07:46 AM
Also... looking at your breadboard, I can't see that R5 is in the right place. It should be in parallel to C4. It might be fine, it's a bit hard to see in the photo. So feel free to ignore me on this one!

EDIT: nope, it's fine. I can now see the white wire on the white background that it hooking it up. :)

Andy40
30-04-2017, 09:55 AM
Thanks Mick, I'll give that a go and see. I thought it may have been the diode but i don't have another one to try.

DrNomis_44
30-04-2017, 11:45 AM
Fourth time lucky....

would you believe?:eek:
19047
Thank the electronic gods...i needed a win.

Sounds pretty good, my only complaint is that it totally craps out if the gain is turned up to full. Clearly the circuit cannot handle it.

It might have something to do with my substitute parts.

First, I used a CMOS IC 4049 (Hex Buffer) instead of a CD4049UBE as the IC;
Second, I used a 1N4004 instead of a 1N5817 as the Diode.
The rest of the components are about the same.

If anyone has any ideas about how I can limit (smooth out) the gain, let me know.


It shouldn't make much difference if you use CMOS 4049 instead of a CD4049UBE, the CD4049UBE is a Hex Inverter IC, that's made using CMOS (Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor) technology, the "CD" in the IC type number indicates that it is a CMOS Device, it may be that the CMOS 4049 might have suffered from ESD (Electro-Static Discharge) damage, which most of the early CMOS devices were prone to until manufacturers started incorporating ESD protection in them.


You could also try using a CD4069 because it is a Hex Inverter too, although the pinout might be different, they are both functionally the same.


The 1N5817 is a Schottky Rectifier Diode with a forward voltage drop of about .3V as compared to a 1N4004 which is a standard silicon rectifier diode with a forward voltage drop of about .6V and a PIV (peak inverse voltage) rating of 400V, that really shouldn't have much effect on the operation of the circuit.

Andy40
30-04-2017, 12:01 PM
Thanks doc. That was an awesome explanation. Have you any suggestion regarding the issue? If you need a sound sample I can put one up

DrNomis_44
30-04-2017, 12:05 PM
Thanks doc. That was an awesome explanation. Have you any suggestion regarding the issue? If you need a sound sample I can put one up


Might be a good idea to put up a sound sample so we can hear what's going on, when you turn up the gain, does it sound like it's going into self-oscillation?, if it does, you could try connecting the metal plate of your breadboard to circuit ground and see if that fixes it, I had that happen to me once when I was breadboarding a circuit on one of my breadboards, soon as I connected the metal plate to circuit ground the circuit started behaving normally.

DrNomis_44
30-04-2017, 12:29 PM
From looking at the Snarkdoodle circuit, it looks like it is based on the Tube Sound Fuzz circuit that was designed by Craig Anderton, who included it in his book "Electronic Projects For Musicians", I've built the circuit before and managed to get it working pretty well on a piece of Veroboard, I might have a go at building the Snarkdoodle one day.


Sorry for the double-post, Firefox was behaving a bit weirdly and wouldn't let me edit my previous post cause the keyboard wasn't responding, had to restart my laptop to sort it out.



Anyway, in the Snarkdoodle circuit each of the used inverters are actually not used as inverters, they are actually being used as amplifiers by being made to work in their linear region, in the circuit diagram, you can see a resistor (R3 in conjunction with a 1M pot, and R5 1M) going from the output of each of the used Hex Inverter stage to the input of that stage, this negative-feedback resistor sets the overall gain and makes the inverter work as an amplifier.


The pot in series with R3 gives us a way to control the gain of the first inverter stage, you will also notice that there's a small value cap in parallel with the resistor, this is to prevent the inverter stage from going into self-oscillation, to further stabilize the circuit, I would put a large value cap across the points where the 9V battery connects, maybe say a 100uF to 470uF/16V cap.

mjg
30-04-2017, 03:12 PM
I think it already has the 100uf cap - it is c6 in the schematic?

I reckon play around with the r3 and gain pot, see if a different value will get the sound you want. As DrNomis said, they are setting the gain factor on that first stage.

You might also find that the circuit is quieter and less distorted once you get it on the PCB. I find that bread boarding will sometimes introduce a whole bunch of noise due to the wires going everywhere.

Andy40
30-04-2017, 03:18 PM
Wow Doc! its like someone turning a light on in the dark! totally makes sense.

The gain pot doesn't do a lot till you turn it waaay up.

Heres a link to a sound file. https://soundcloud.com/andy40-923020102/snark-doodle-test1

Sorry is not a real amp, but it sounds the same going into my Blues Cube. Its going into my Zoom G3X Pedal. I think I just used a tweed amp simpulator with some reverb and my Pitbull ST-1 going into the Sanrkdoodle circuit.

For the first minute, I have the gain turned right down to 0 and I am just increasing the volume up at stages.

From 1:00 min I turn the volume down a bit and turn the gain right up, then I increase the volume at 1:25min and you can hear it start to not handle it - that's my problem right there.

DrNomis_44
30-04-2017, 04:20 PM
Wow Doc! its like someone turning a light on in the dark! totally makes sense.

The gain pot doesn't do a lot till you turn it waaay up.

Heres a link to a sound file. https://soundcloud.com/andy40-923020102/snark-doodle-test1

Sorry is not a real amp, but it sounds the same going into my Blues Cube. Its going into my Zoom G3X Pedal. I think I just used a tweed amp simpulator with some reverb and my Pitbull ST-1 going into the Sanrkdoodle circuit.

For the first minute, I have the gain turned right down to 0 and I am just increasing the volume up at stages.

From 1:00 min I turn the volume down a bit and turn the gain right up, then I increase the volume at 1:25min and you can hear it start to not handle it - that's my problem right there.


You could try reducing the value of the coupling caps between each of the inverters, that will reduce some of the bass frequencies, I'm assuming that's what the problem is, too much bass in the tone, I'll have a look at the circuit again and post some suggested cap values to try.


Okay, you could try reducing C3 to 22nF (.022uf, or 223), and C5 to maybe 100nF (.1uf, 104) and see if that sorts it out.


I may need to breadboard the circuit so that I can see if I can figure out exactly what's going on and maybe tweak some of the component values.


Update:

I just had another listen to your demo and I made sure I paid careful attention to what I was listening to as it got to the 1:25 mark, and I see what you mean, it seems to go a bit glitchy there in comparison to the smoother sound you get at lower gains, hmmmmm.....try giving those cap values I suggested a try and see if that gets rid of the problem.

Andy40
01-05-2017, 05:47 AM
I think it already has the 100uf cap - it is c6 in the schematic?

Yhep, you are right C6 is a 100uf 16v electrolytic cap


You might also find that the circuit is quieter and less distorted once you get it on the PCB. I find that bread boarding will sometimes introduce a whole bunch of noise due to the wires going everywhere.

Yhep again Matt, there is definatley an overall buzzin that i thought may be reduced once on the PCB and boxed.

alright I'll try changing R3 to either 50k or 200k and I think ive got a 500k pot somewhere here too! I'll also try connecting the metal plate of my breadboard to circuit ground

I'll also try reducing C3 to 22nF (.022uf, or 223), and C5 to maybe 100nF (.1uf, 104)

Thanks guys you really are helping me out!

DrNomis_44
01-05-2017, 10:49 AM
Yhep, you are right C6 is a 100uf 16v electrolytic cap



Yhep again Matt, there is definatley an overall buzzin that i thought may be reduced once on the PCB and boxed.

alright I'll try changing R3 to either 50k or 200k and I think ive got a 500k pot somewhere here too! I'll also try connecting the metal plate of my breadboard to circuit ground

I'll also try reducing C3 to 22nF (.022uf, or 223), and C5 to maybe 100nF (.1uf, 104)

Thanks guys you really are helping me out!


No worries mate, hope that sorts it all out, when I get round to breadboarding the circuit I might make some mods to it, like maybe add a tone-stack of some kind to it, I'll post the mods in this thread.

Andy40
01-05-2017, 11:18 AM
Tried different caps and resistors, earthing it to breadboard. nothing really worked, some of it made it worse. It may be an issue with the circuit being open on the breadboard.

I've moved on to double check the PCB with the multimeter and populate the pcb!!! :eek:

Quick question though as you can see on the silk screen I can identify, G for ground, In and Out and the LED....but what is "L"? its got me stumpted

DrNomis_44
01-05-2017, 11:31 AM
Tried different caps and resistors, earthing it to breadboard. nothing really worked, some of it made it worse. It may be an issue with the circuit being open on the breadboard.

I've moved on to double check the PCB with the multimeter and populate the pcb!!! :eek:

Quick question though as you can see on the silk screen I can identify, G for ground, In and Out and the LED....but what is "L"? its got me stumpted


I just had a look at the circuit diagram and the pad marked "L" goes to the cathode lead of the Led, so, I think that pad marked "L" is where you solder a piece of wire that goes to the footswitch so that it turns the Led off when you stomp on the footswitch to bypass the effect.

Andy40
01-05-2017, 11:42 AM
Thanks doc!

DrNomis_44
01-05-2017, 11:53 AM
No worries mate.

mjg
01-05-2017, 01:57 PM
Yep, the 'L' pad is the one that you connect with wire to the 3rd pole of the foot switch. It's done that way on all the Madbean PCBs that I've seen.

The LED itself goes into the '+ LED '-' pads.

Note that R7 is the current limiting resistor for the LED, and depending on what colour LED and how bright you want it, you may need to adjust that resistor value. If you've got one of those super bright white or blue LEDs, you will probably want a higher resistor value in R7. I'd double check your LED and R7 on breadboard before committing to soldering that one in. Speaking from experience... I've made that mistake more than once. :)

DrNomis_44
01-05-2017, 02:02 PM
If you're running your Snarkdoodle off a 9V battery, and you decide to use a high-brightness Blue Led as the indicator, then a suitable resistor value for R7 could be anything from say 22k to something like 56k, personally, I got pretty good results using a 47k current limiting resistor with the Blue Leds in my pedal builds that run on a 9V battery.

Andy40
01-05-2017, 04:34 PM
As its a red pedal (and I don't gig, I'll probably use a high Red LED. (I managed to blow my last one testing the pedal).

Here's what i got up to today..

19073
Poured multiple cups of coffee and tested the circuit with a multimeter (couple of faults - not bad) - fixed faults

Populated the board and soldered it up (a few boo boos) best damn soldering job i think i've ever done!.

Rocked it before i boxed it!

19074

Drilled most of the enclosure in a 1590G

19075

Put it together....

19076

Thats it till next time folks.....

mjg
01-05-2017, 05:30 PM
Looks good!

How did you find the sound once you got it on the PCB?

DrNomis_44
01-05-2017, 05:33 PM
Looking good there mate, so I'm assuming that you're going to be spray-painting the pedal a Red colour then?


I finally got all the electronics in my Gold strat all working a few minutes ago, all the new Kent Armstrong Dual-Blades appear to be working, as does all the controls, I just need to wait till next week to buy some strings so I can string the guitar up, set it up, and then do a demo of it.

stan
01-05-2017, 06:01 PM
It's coming together nicely Andy - cant wait to hear the result

Andy40
02-05-2017, 02:22 PM
Thanks Guys, yeah Matt, it sounded pretty good before I boxed it. Sounded much better than on the breadboard.

Then disaster struck.

She no work...

I think I burnt the pots out cutting the long shaft with my dremel..... How do you guys cut your long shafts?

dang....till next weekend.

DrNomis_44
02-05-2017, 02:29 PM
Thanks Guys, yeah Matt, it sounded pretty good before I boxed it. Sounded much better than on the breadboard.

Then disaster struck.

She no work...

I think I burnt the pots out cutting the long shaft with my dremel..... How do you guys cut your long shafts?

dang....till next weekend.


To cut the shafts of the 24mm Alpha Pots I use to build my pedals, I just use a small bench vise, a standard metalworking hacksaw, and a fine felt-tip blue sharpie to mark where to cut, had no problems with pots not working with that method.

mjg
02-05-2017, 02:40 PM
I use my rotary tool (rip off brand of the Dremel) to cut the tops of pots. Haven't had issues doing it that way.

Might be something else is making it not work - something shorting out in the enclosure when you put it in? Maybe the switch isn't wired correctly?

Do you get a bypass signal working through the enclosure when you stomp on the switch? If that also doesn't work, might be the switch.

Another thing to check first up - use your multimeter to double check that power is getting to the board.

Andy40
02-05-2017, 06:01 PM
Yeah, everything was working sweet all wired up (just no LED) then as soon as I cut the tops off the pots I noiced how unbearably hot they were. then suddenly the circuit doesn't work whether it was in the box or out. My multimeter is the next step...just got to find the child free time.....;)

DrNomis_44
02-05-2017, 07:25 PM
Yeah, everything was working sweet all wired up (just no LED) then as soon as I cut the tops off the pots I noiced how unbearably hot they were. then suddenly the circuit doesn't work whether it was in the box or out. My multimeter is the next step...just got to find the child free time.....;)


I'm guessing that it's probably just a bad solder-joint somewhere that got disturbed, also, check to see if any of the solder lugs on the pots are a bit loose, I've sometimes had some pots develop loose solder lugs after I've soldered wires to them, if you find any pots with loose solder lugs it's best to just replace them with a good one, hope that helps, let us know your findings.


Sometimes the footswitch solder lugs can go a bit loose too if you apply heat for too long on them, that could be the reason for the Led not working, also, check the voltages on the components when the pedal is powered up with your multimeter, if some of the voltages look a bit off then it's probably a faulty component that's related to it that's causing it to be a bit off.

Maddogm
02-05-2017, 10:18 PM
make sure you don't have a bit of wire or a component shorting somewhere, on one of my pedals I had a bit of wire I'd soldered into the PCB shorting on the enclosure killing the pedal (it was on one of the jacks)

mjg
03-05-2017, 06:22 AM
Good luck debugging it Andy. Good luck finding the child free time too.

How old is the child? Once they are old enough to read the letters 'R' and 'C', and numbers 1-20 or so, you can use them to populate the circuit boards for you. :)

(And once they are old enough to hold a pencil, and understand the sentence "Arrrhhgg, no, that's too much solder!" they are ready to learn soldering too ;) )

stan
03-05-2017, 07:20 AM
Good plan, historically child labour has been used to cheaply increase production...

Didn't happen until you cased it Andy - it's an obvious statement, but there is probably the best place to start the search. Not working and heating pots certainly suggests a short , good luck

Andy40
03-05-2017, 01:04 PM
Good luck debugging it Andy. Good luck finding the child free time too.

How old is the child? Once they are old enough to read the letters 'R' and 'C', and numbers 1-20 or so, you can use them to populate the circuit boards for you. :)

(And once they are old enough to hold a pencil, and understand the sentence "Arrrhhgg, no, that's too much solder!" they are ready to learn soldering too ;) )

You give me such good ideas Matt

Simon Barden
03-05-2017, 04:59 PM
I'm wondering if the initial problem, the 'rough' sound with the gain turned up, is simply due to the signal being too hot for the Zoom and Roland inputs and you are getting digital clipping as a result? Both are DSP based units so will have maximum signal levels that they can cope with. Exceed those and the tops of any waveforms entering get straight-line clipped. Not nice sounding. You won't get a similar issue with a valve amp. It can happen with modelling amps like the Kemper if you use a really hot pickup in your guitar and don't adjust the input attenuation to its maximum attenuation level - let alone the output from a high-gain drive pedal.

If you keep the output volume low, do you get a similar effect with the gain turned right up?


Also, did you pick up from the circuit diagram that the gain pot is a linear type whilst the volume pot should be an audio type?

Andy40
04-05-2017, 04:18 PM
Hi Simon,

I had the same thought...alas my mates tube amp (and my only easy access to one) had died recently so I couldn't run the test.

You are right though about the volume, its only when the volume is turned up max with max gain does it do it. you only have to back the volume off just a fraction (not even very low) and it sounds sweet.

I'll double check the A and B type pots when i get some time.

Andy40
10-05-2017, 02:29 PM
right so actually nothing wrong with the pedal. I just used cheap jacks and the hot tip had spun inside the box so it was touching the earth.

I better start thinking of ways to put a finish on the pedal.

Whats cheap and easy? rattle cans?

DrNomis_44
10-05-2017, 02:49 PM
right so actually nothing wrong with the pedal. I just used cheap jacks and the hot tip had spun inside the box so it was touching the earth.

I better start thinking of ways to put a finish on the pedal.

Whats cheap and easy? rattle cans?


Yep, rattle cans are cheap and easy enough, and I got pretty good results with that on some of my DIY pedals, you'll need to buy yourself a can of the colour spray-paint you want to use, a can of White Knight Clear Gloss Lacquer, and if you're using a diecast aluminium box from Jaycar Electronics as your enclosure for the pedal, a can of grey etch primer, another thing you might also want to buy is some sheets of rub-on lettering which you can use to do the labeling.


You can buy the spray paint, clear lacquer, and etch primer from your local big green shed.


Seeing as I'm going to be giving my two DIY Tonebender pedals a new paint-job soon, I might see if I can do a mini-tutorial on spray-painting/labeling DIY pedals, since I'm guessing that it'll be of great interest to DIY pedal builders.


Actually, if there are any forum members who are interested in me doing a mini-tutorial on spray painting/labeling DIY pedals, feel free to let me know.

mjg
10-05-2017, 06:22 PM
Ahh the joys of cheap jacks. Good to hear you got it working.

stan
10-05-2017, 06:44 PM
Glad it was an easy fix, got any wild colours planned?

Andy40
20-05-2017, 05:37 AM
So its boxed and working! yay me

buuuuut, I think i either got the pots wrong or wired them wrong because anticlockwise increases volume/gain :confused:

DrNomis_44
20-05-2017, 05:42 AM
So its boxed and working! yay me

buuuuut, I think i either got the pots wrong or wired them wrong because anticlockwise increases volume/gain :confused:


I think I may have done that in the past, wired a pot backwards, all you need to do is swap the two outer-wires around and it should work correctly.

Andy40
02-07-2017, 04:47 AM
So. Back to this pedal. Pots are rewired (yay) and time for some decoration. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/d84f7cd7c6edbe0b5e5ce771618c832d.jpg boring
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/5e344b997709e7b5b78fc05dfb6e1e72.jpgschiniehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170701/3cd357b845990eec71c7d22f79f442e2.jpgundercoat. Getting there

DrNomis_44
02-07-2017, 06:08 AM
Looking pretty good there Andy, so what colour do you think you'll go with for that pedal?

Andy40
02-07-2017, 06:14 AM
POSCA Pens!

Andy40
06-07-2017, 04:33 PM
Not the best artwork, but it's all mine. Probably won't last long from getting stomped on.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170706/020c12eefeb4f066f5ac370e0e94f4bd.jpgafter pulling it apart many times, I finally got it all to work....except the led. Oh well. It's got such a boost you really know when it's on anyway

DrNomis_44
07-07-2017, 02:30 AM
Not the best artwork, but it's all mine. Probably won't last long from getting stomped on.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170706/020c12eefeb4f066f5ac370e0e94f4bd.jpgafter pulling it apart many times, I finally got it all to work....except the led. Oh well. It's got such a boost you really know when it's on anyway


Looks cool, you could try spraying it with a couple of coats of White Knight Clear Lacquer, either gloss or satin will work, that should help protect the artwork a bit, the Led might not be working due to bad contacts in the footswitch, is it getting power?

Andy40
08-07-2017, 10:56 AM
Best. Idea.evahttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170708/0254a6bf64eedecadee97f8619bc7b56.jpg

gavinturner
09-07-2017, 09:40 AM
Love the artwork Andy. Couple of coats of furniture Poly should see it more than permanent?

cheers,
Gav.

Maddogm
10-07-2017, 11:21 AM
Best. Idea.evahttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170708/0254a6bf64eedecadee97f8619bc7b56.jpg
Definitely an upgrade on my pieces of packaging foam.

Andy40
07-02-2020, 02:57 AM
Just an update, for anyone that may be following - Doc I'm looking at you! lol

I had some real issues with the etched board and the pedal did not last long and could not be revived.

I was quite sad and pouty because the Wayhuge Red Llama is an incredibly versatile and powerful pedal for an extremely simple circuit. I mean the cost of the components are less than AUS $15 with the enclosure being the most expensive part!

Doc I definitely suggest trying one if you have't as yet.

Long story short, It turns out the Madbean pedals have reissued their circuit on a PCB and I jumped at the chance to yoink a few over to Oz and rebuild.

I'll post a picture. my pedal building skillz :cool: are a little better nowadays!

Andy40
07-02-2020, 03:03 AM
Some photos. Next step is to decorate said enclosure. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200206/74106040b22bd8d3a00a8f8df61b45ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200206/82f370d0809b0c244f176f9c239b544b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200206/216730167177504f4b58dbec7cacff40.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

DrNomis_44
08-02-2020, 06:48 AM
Some photos. Next step is to decorate said enclosure. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200206/74106040b22bd8d3a00a8f8df61b45ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200206/82f370d0809b0c244f176f9c239b544b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200206/216730167177504f4b58dbec7cacff40.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Looks awesome, are you going to re-do the artwork?

Andy40
09-02-2020, 11:20 AM
Thanks doc. I've still got the old one. which doesn't work. I've built two new ones, one for me and a mate.

I've got a spare PCB and will swap the old one out and solder the new PCB in...but yes, I'll be respraying all enclosures.

jugglindan
18-04-2020, 07:54 PM
I just saw that Pedal Part Au have a PCB for a Llama-style circuit: the Angry Red Camel (https://www.pedalpartsaustralia.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62_65&products_id=1505). The demo video sounds good too. It appears to be a Red llama circuit with a separately switched clean boost to really kick it up a notch. Like a Spice Weasel, which is what I would call this if I build one. The stripboard layout (https://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/06/way-huge-red-llama.html) is super simple, all the magic seems to be in the IC.

Must resist, must finish current projects first, must resist must .... Paypal? Great ...

jugglindan
18-04-2020, 08:18 PM
Curse you!! CD4049UBE just purchased on eBay, along with some more pots. Why does it seem that no matter how many pots I have stashed, every circuit seems to require values I don't have? Must be the Murphy's Law of electronics.

Andy40
19-04-2020, 03:01 AM
Good to hear that you are as addicted as me!

jugglindan
05-05-2020, 07:40 PM
Hey @Andy40, how close to a fuzz tone can you get with the Snarkdoodle? I have just been playing around with the Big Muff patch in my Xtomp and I found some very interesting saturated tones running the direct drive into it. While I could build one, I am wondering whether the red llama could get into the same territory.

Also, I have shelved my plans to build a Guv'nor. The lemon squeezer into the Direct Drive with the gain switch on high sounds nearly the same (better actually) than the guvnor and Drive Master patches on the xtomp. Man, I really wish I put that gain switch on a stomp. I have dialled in settings that I like and mostly just toggle the switches.

Andy40
06-05-2020, 03:40 AM
Interesting question. I'll try it out and compare it with my Big Muff Clone later today.;)

jugglindan
06-05-2020, 06:51 AM
Great, thanks :D

Andy40
06-05-2020, 03:39 PM
Yeah it covers the full spectrum. Certainly can achieve fuzz tones on the last 10 percent of gain, only increases when you turn up the volume.

jugglindan
06-05-2020, 03:47 PM
Yeah it covers the full spectrum. Certainly can achieve fuzz tones on the last 10 percent of gain, only increases when you turn up the volume.

Good to know, thanks. I did some experiments with gain pedal stacking, shuffling the order of pedals around. I have every sound that I want covered except for that high-gain fuzz with endless sustain that sounds so right sometimes. One thing that surprised me (because it sounds so good at lower gain settings) was how close the Barber pedal could get to the Guv'nor cranked Marshall sounds.

Andy40
06-05-2020, 03:49 PM
Yeah, look it most certainly was overtaken by my fuzz pedal which has sustain for days (and a special knob for said sustain!).

Not to give you ideas but I build a Madbead 8ball which is a close of the Bluesbreaker. I love those Marshally tones.

jugglindan
06-05-2020, 04:31 PM
I am going to breadboard some fuzz circuits to see what I think.

I have never really tried a BB pedal. There is a patch in the Xtomp but I don't like it that much. The patches are not always close though.

And I probably shouldn't be surprised by the Guv'nor/cranked plexi tones I am getting from the Barber, given their blurb says "the NEW Compact Direct Drive brings a colossal catalog of vintage British voice to your pedal-board".