Attention Weirdy and other electronic gurus!!

[Zandit75]

I'm planning through my wiring up of my Carson re-build - http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=6284

I have sourced 2nd hand components from Waz and another friend, and I would like some wiring guidance, as I am changing things up a little from the original set up.
Below is a photo of my components
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161015_180257_zpsmzpq72rd.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161015_180257_zpsmzpq72rd.jpg.html)

I have a standard looking Humbucker(taken from an EX-1 Kit - 12.1k), a Korean WSC 4-wire Hot stack Single, and a standard single from a Korean Magnum Strat copy. There are two Pots(1 x A500k, & 1 x B500k), a standard Strat style 5-way switch, and a small 3-way microswitch(on-on-on) that I want to use for the Hot Stack PUP.

Here are a couple of photos of the Hot Stack wiring diagram that came with the PUP.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161015_213022_zpsjq1kfgax.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161015_213022_zpsjq1kfgax.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161015_213215_zpsjy94r5c1.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161015_213215_zpsjy94r5c1.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161015_213206_zpswmr2wy1u.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161015_213206_zpswmr2wy1u.jpg.html)

If anyone can assist with a suggested wiring diagram it would be most appreciated.
Any questions, please let me know, and I will try my best to fill in any gaps.
Thanks in advance.

[WeirdBits]

As the EX humbucker isn't splittable without modding the simplest option is to use the mini-toggle to split the hot stack. That way you can have the standard strat positions and toggle the hot stack to a single coil for the quack etc.

The trick is working out which coil from the hot stack will match the neck single as a hum cancellng pair, as that's the one you'll need to split to. Basically, you connect the hot stack coils, one at a time, to the neck pup and listen through an amp... if it hums you need the other coil. So, first try the green-hot red-ground coil and if that's not hum cancelling with the neck try the white-hot black-ground pair. Once you work out which coil you need then we can work up a wiring layout.

[Zandit75]

Thanks for the quick reply Weirdy, most appreciated.
So to test these, I'm assuming I need a cable plugged into an amp, and touching the bare wires of both pups to the tip and shaft of the cable to produce a sound through the amp, similar to this video around the 2:10 minute mark, but both pups at the same time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nntdej_Qj6k

[WeirdBits]

Basically, yep. I normally use clip leads and a jack as it's a lot easier than trying to hold wires in place while testing.

The phase of the pups in relation to each other can also be an issue, particularly with mixed pickups from different manufacturers, but that's easy to deal with once the guitar is making noise.

[Zandit75]

Sorry for the delay Weirdy, Sunday was too busy to get anything done for you.
I'll check it out tonight and let you know.

One thing, The white and red wires have been soldered together. This doesn't give you any insight I assume?

[WeirdBits]

The joined white and red wires are the 'series link' between the two coils. One of the coils will be reverse wound, reverse polarity to the other coil so linking them together gives you a hum cancelling/bucking pair... hence, humbucker. When you split the coils and combine it with a single coil pickup you want the split coil to be the reverse wound reverse polarity of the single coil pup thus giving you a hum cancelling pair. On a strat the middle pup is RWRP compared to the bridge and neck so in positions 2 & 4 on the lever switch you get a hum cancelling pair with bridge & middle and middle & neck, respectively. This is what you want to achieve when you split the hot stack, if you get what I mean.

Btw, you don't need to separate the red and white for testing. So, green->hot and red & white->ground for the first coil, then red & white->hot and black->ground for the other coil. It should be very evident which coil cancels the hum with the neck single coil.

[Zandit75]

Awesome, you make it sound easy!!
Now I just go to waste a couple of hours at work before having a crack at it at home tonight!

[Zandit75]

Alright, that actually was as easy as you explained it! !
It's a crappy amp, and I had to wind it up to max to hear it, but the green wire stops the hum.
I hope this helps!

[WeirdBits]

Ok, that makes it easy. If you want I can draw up a wiring diagram for you that includes the mini-toggle to split the hot stack. What colour are the wires on the neck single coil and bridge humbucker?

Also, as the mini-toggle is an on/on/on it should be possible to set it up as: split hot-stack/full hot-stack/'bridge on'.
What that means is that in the 'bridge on' position it connects the bridge pup regardless of the lever switch setting, so you can have the bridge + neck and bridge + middle + neck in positions 5 & 4 respectively... something you can't normally do on a strat. Just an idea. Note that in the 'bridge on' position the hot stack will be in full mode, not split.

[Zandit75]

Thank you so much Weirdy, a diagram with that combo would be awesome.
With the "bridge on" would that technically make it a double up on position 3? Not that it matters, I'm just trying to wrap my head around it all!

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161015_180257_zpsmzpq72rd.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161015_180257_zpsmzpq72rd.jpg.html)
As seen in the photo above, the Humbucker has a red sheath to the wire, but inside it has a white hot wire, and bare wire strands.
The single coil has a black sheath, with again, a white hot wire, and bare wire strands.
Hopefully this makes sense for you.
Any extra questions, please let me know!

[Zandit75]

One other question, will I need to shield the cavities for this style of guitar?

[WeirdBits]

Shielding the cavities is always a wise move, slug/barrier tape works fine if that's all you have access to.

The 'bridge on' setting would basically just link the bridge pup to the volume separate from the lever switch setting, so it adds the bridge pup to whatever you have selected. In positions 1 & 2 it has no effect as the bridge is already on, position 3 it would add the bridge to the middle (same as what position 2 already is), position 4 it would add the bridge to the middle + neck and position 5 would add the bridge to the neck. So, it gives you an 'everything on' option for position 4 and a 'bridge + neck' option for position 5, which is sometimes called a 7-way mod for a strat.

The other option for the mini-toggle is to wire it so the hot stack works as: full stack (series, default)/split stack/full stack (parallel). You would no longer have the 'bridge on' option, but instead get a parallel setting on the hot stack which should give a clearer, slightly brighter and thinner but lower output sound. It all depends on what you want or would like to try, as the actual wiring is pretty easy either way.

[wazkelly]

Some people swear by using copper shielding tape all the time, particularly when using single coil PUP's. Highly recommend doing it inside the control cavity as that can be more of a problem for humming & buzzing than the PUP's themselves as was the case on my Tele.

This stuff is pretty cheap, does the trick and easily found in Big Green sheds or local hardware and gardening stores.
1447714478

[WeirdBits]

hehe snap.

[wazkelly]

hehe snap.
I was just going at a snail's pace compared to you.

[Zandit75]

Sorry Weirdy, I realised I must have left you hanging last night.
If you can do the second option for the hot stack it would be most appreciated.
Thanks again for your assistance, you, along with Waz, have been awesome!

[stan]

Some people swear by using copper shielding tape all the time, particularly when using single coil PUP's. Highly recommend doing it inside the control cavity as that can be more of a problem for humming & buzzing than the PUP's themselves as was the case on my Tele.

This stuff is pretty cheap, does the trick and easily found in Big Green sheds or local hardware and gardening stores.
1447714478

heaps cheaper than the official stuff too - the only disadvantage is that the glue is not conductive. Aluminium tape can be bought from Jaycar pretty cheaply, and a decent alternative.
I'm about to give shielding paint a try - I just can't get those super awesome looking cavities like the guys who do the copper tape so nicely

[Zandit75]

Thanks guys again, most appreciated. I've got a pack of shielding from DB when I got my LP kit, will that do a couple of guitars, or is it only enough for one?
Also, do I need to shield the trem cavity as well?

[WeirdBits]

According to the blurb "...We’ve also packaged the tape in a kit that is guaranteed to contain enough tape to do any one of our guitars or basses.". Judicious use may stretch it, but I doubt you will get an LP and fully shield a strat type from one pack.

No need to shield the trem cavity, you just need do the control cavity and pup routs and the back of the pickguard over those areas so that they're enclosed on all sides... and make sure each area of shielding has a path to ground.

I'll draw up a diagram with the series/split/parallel mini-toggle option as soon as I get time.

[wokkaboy]

that's it Weirdy, you would need 2 packs of copper shielding at least to do a ST, or a double neck SG !!
I think 1 pack you could stretch to do a LP kit

[Zandit75]

Thanks Weirdy & Woks, most appreciated.
This doesn't have a pickguard as the cavities are accessed from the back of the guitar, so I'll only be doing the insides of the cavity.
Here's the guitar before I started stripping it.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/WP_20160902_11_32_40_Pro_zpshxm9cdm2.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/WP_20160902_11_32_40_Pro_zpshxm9cdm2.jpg.html)

[wokkaboy]

wow that was a colourful axe Zandit !

be worth shielding the pup cavities as well as the control cavity and control cover

[Zandit75]

wow that was a colourful axe Zandit !

be worth shielding the pup cavities as well as the control cavity and control cover

Thanks mate, will do.
It's a little different now, check out the thread if you haven't already seen it.
http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=6284

[Zandit75]

Is there a particular wire I should be using? I visited the local Jaycar shop, and they have some ribbon wire there that looks very similar to what is supplied in the PBG kits, but on first inspection it looked very thin. Once I got home, I checked the kit wire, and it looked pretty much the same. What should I be looking for in particular?

[wazkelly]

Hi Zandit, the wire gauge in the kits is OK but any thinner would not be so good. All of mine have been done with similar gauge however on any future builds I will definitely have a crack at using the vintage cloth push back stuff found in the PBG store.

It comes in Black & White, quite cheap, and the best part is you don't have to strip the plastic as you just pull back a bit of the cloth, tin the wires then solder up.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/upgrades/all-parts-vintage-cloth-push-back-wire-black-500mm/
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/shop/upgrades/all-parts-vintage-cloth-push-back-wire-white-500mm/

[WeirdBits]

Kit style hook-up wire will be fine for the short lengths you'll need in the cavity, for longer runs you can use X core screened/shielded cable (https://www.jaycar.com.au/2-core-round-screened-audio-cable/p/WB1504) to minimise noise (like the connection to the jack). If you want high-end you can get the vintage push-back from the PBG shop.

I haven't had a chance to draw up the diagram yet, should be in the next day or so.

[Zandit75]

Kit style hook-up wire will be fine for the short lengths you'll need in the cavity, for longer runs you can use X core screened/shielded cable (https://www.jaycar.com.au/2-core-round-screened-audio-cable/p/WB1504) to minimise noise (like the connection to the jack). If you want high-end you can get the vintage push-back from the PBG shop.

I haven't had a chance to draw up the diagram yet, should be in the next day or so.

No rush Weirdy, I just appreciate the assistance! I still have plenty of work to do on the guitar before I'm ready for the wiring.
I'll check both lots of wiring you and Waz suggested. Thanks again!

[WeirdBits]

I think this should work, hopefully it's clear enough for you.

14539

The dark grey wires are the ground connections and the light grey are the bare wires on the pickups.

As you are mixing three different pickups from three different manufacturers there's a real chance that there could be some phase issues. Basically, they'll either all be in phase or one will be out compared to the others. You'll hear it if one is out of phase, when combined with another pup the sound will be thin and nasally, very distinctive. If it happens, chances are it'll be the Hot Stack and if that's the case its wiring will need to be reversed while maintaining the coil order for the hum cancelling when split. So, just for the Hot Stack, green would go to the red connections, red to the green connections, black to white connection and white to black connection (I think), bare stays the same. But, wire it as per the diagram at first and hopefully we'll get lucky and you won't need to change anything. If it's one the other pups that's out of phase you'll just need to swap their hot and ground (you don't have chrome/metal covers so you can do that in this case).

Let me know if you have any questions/problems.

[Zandit75]

Holy crap!!
Thank you so much Weirdy!! This is awesome!!
I can't make head nor tails of it at this point, but I'll take your word for it that it will work!!:p

[wazkelly]

Ain't it great to have someone like Scott to come and rescue everyone like this. Man, you are a genius.

[Zandit75]

Ain't it great to have someone like Scott to come and rescue everyone like this. Man, you are a genius.

Yep, agreed!!! If I can pull this wiring diagram off, that will be a huge confidence booster!

[Zandit75]

Hey Weirdy, guess what??!! I'm finally getting to the scary part!
I have the Pups installed, and I think I may have hit a slight snag.
The neck pups wires are a little on the short side, so how your diagram is shown, I won't have enough wire to get to left side of the selector switch. If I reverse the switch, there should be enough slack to wire it up comfortably, however will this now mean the selector switch will be back to front?
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161128_201018_zpsyvhtxezo.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161128_201018_zpsyvhtxezo.jpg.html)

To try and make myself clearer, if I follow your diagram, the circuit board would be closer to the Trem.
If I flip it, the silver cover would be closer to the trem.
Thanks in advance!

[wokkaboy]

hey Zandit yes if you reverse the wires on the switch the reverse pickups will operate. Just join more wire to the shorter wire and if you have heatshrink use that to cover the join so it doesn't cause any shorts

[Zandit75]

hey Zandit yes if you reverse the wires on the switch the reverse pickups will operate. Just join more wire to the shorter wire and if you have heatshrink use that to cover the join so it doesn't cause any shorts

OK, I can probably do that.
What about the unused connection points on the switch? The way Weirdy supplied the drawing, there are 3 points on the left side of the switch that don't have anything connected to them.
Are they usable?

[WeirdBits]

The left side of the switch is the reverse of the right side, as it is in the image above. So, where the neck pup is connected to the outer most lug on the right side it could also be connected to the inner most lug on the left side for the same result (leave the other pup xonnections as drawn). If the neck pup will stretch that far then that's the easiest option.

Otherwise, as Wokks said, just add some extension wires to the pup's leads, solder and insulate the joins.

[Zandit75]

Awesome guys, thanks again!

[Zandit75]

I think this should work, hopefully it's clear enough for you.

14539

The dark grey wires are the ground connections and the light grey are the bare wires on the pickups.

As you are mixing three different pickups from three different manufacturers there's a real chance that there could be some phase issues. Basically, they'll either all be in phase or one will be out compared to the others. You'll hear it if one is out of phase, when combined with another pup the sound will be thin and nasally, very distinctive. If it happens, chances are it'll be the Hot Stack and if that's the case its wiring will need to be reversed while maintaining the coil order for the hum cancelling when split. So, just for the Hot Stack, green would go to the red connections, red to the green connections, black to white connection and white to black connection (I think), bare stays the same. But, wire it as per the diagram at first and hopefully we'll get lucky and you won't need to change anything. If it's one the other pups that's out of phase you'll just need to swap their hot and ground (you don't have chrome/metal covers so you can do that in this case).

Let me know if you have any questions/problems.

Hey Weirdy, can you please provide some guidance?
Position 1 - Neck Pup works fine.
Position 2 - Neck works fine, middle will only work if the 3-way is in the downwards position.
Position 3 - Middle works only in the downwards position
Position 4 - Middle works only in the downwards position, Nothing from the Humbucker
Position 5 - Humbucker works fine.

I'm done for the night, but any starting points would be appreciated for trouble shooting.
Thanks in advance!

[wazkelly]

Sounds like the wires may be going to the wrong lugs on the 3 way mini switch and some close up photos might help identify the culprits.

Cheers, Waz.

[WeirdBits]

Yep, it's a mini-toggle issue, either wrong connections or failing contacts (unlikely). My diagram used the colours on the pup's supplied diagram you posted, so the colours should be correct. Need to see some close-up pics of your mini-switch wiring to see what's what.

[Simon Barden]

DPDT on/on/on switches come in 'handed' versions, so this switch might be the opposite way round to the way WeirdBits expected. This would explain things not happening as expected.

15559

[WeirdBits]

*nods* yep, it always pays to the check the contact sequence when you're (re)using unfamiliar switches. Most of the ones I see are type 2.

[Simon Barden]

Though the two outer positions should still work if that was the case. Hmmm.

The WSC web site wiring diagram for the STK50 shows different connections to those printed on the box.

http://wscmusic.com/itemView.php?query=view&code=00000207&no=1055&lv=2

15560

It could be that the wiring has changed over time, or it could be that the box wiring was incorrect - or not correct for the stacked single coil as the diagram is for a standard humbucker.

It's probably best to unsolder the pickup output wire connections fully so that you have the four wire ends and the shield all separate. Then see if there's a measurable resistance between white and black, and then green and red. If there is, then the wiring is as per the WSC web site and not that on the box.

If the wiring is as per the web drawing, then the connections indicated on the box would only allow for a single coil output, and probably shorting out any signals or leaving coils open with the 3-way switch connected (possibly why the position with humbucker +stack didn't work).

[Zandit75]

Here's some shots for you guys to check out. Soldering is still a new thing to me, but they are all very solid connections.

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161206_174118_zpsrpd9ozro.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161206_174118_zpsrpd9ozro.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161206_174139_zpsubhbeuwo.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161206_174139_zpsubhbeuwo.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161206_174151_zps0bfflhma.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161206_174151_zps0bfflhma.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161206_174204_zpsc6yeg4ee.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161206_174204_zpsc6yeg4ee.jpg.html)

[Zandit75]

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161206_174228_zpsusnlajsd.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161206_174228_zpsusnlajsd.jpg.html)

[wokkaboy]

Hey Zandit getting there. That black wire with the long bare wire length could short out on another wire/lug or the copper shielding. I would cut it and re-join to the lug with more insulation covering it or get some heat shrink will lessen the chances of wires shorting.
You will need to remove the solder on the lug first, some solder kits have a solder sucker should make it easier to remove

[Zandit75]

Yeah, that cable was missed with the initial soldering, as it iscsupposed to be the green wire going from the 3-way to 5-way switch. I'll definitely re-do that one, but the switch wasn't in the cavity when I was testing it last night, none of the electrics were. It definitely was not touching anything to short out on.

[WeirdBits]

Do yu have access to a multimeter?

[Zandit75]

Yes I do, I can borrow one from work, but since I'm heading off early tomorrow afternoon and not returning until Monday I think I better wait until then to grab a set.

[WeirdBits]

Do that and we can run some tests. The switch wiring is a bit messy but the connections look correct. So we need to check the pickup coil colour pairs (in case the supplied diagram doesn't match) and the switch contact sequence to enaure everything is working and gets connected the way it needs to be.

[Zandit75]

Alright guys, I'll have a multi meter for tonight, what will I be looking for and what steps should I be taking?

[WeirdBits]

We need to confirm which wires are pairs for each coil. The original diagram you posted has them listed as Green & Red as one pair and White & Black (plus shield/bare) as the other, so we need to check that's correct.

Disconnect the Hot Stack's wires from the mini-switch, set your multimeter to 'resistance' (Ohms) and test the green/red pair and white/black pair. You should get a resistance reading, probably 4K+. If you don't get a reading then start switching the pairs, red/black, white/green etc until you get measurable resistance and those are your coil pairs (this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UfxQBhqen8) may help).

Also test your mini-switch to ensure that's working correctly. Set the multimeter to continuity test (or resistance will do) and test the switch contacts in each position. Remember, as Simon posted, there are type different 'handed' versions of the on/on/on's so you'll need to test which version you have (as per Simon's image, types 1 and 2):
http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15559&d=1480941554

The testing will tell us what's working or should be working and how in needs to be connected. Make sense?

[Zandit75]

I think so. The pick up I understand no worries.
With the switch, am I supposed to be checking matched coloured dots?
Also, with the switch, what would be the position of the switch going left to right in each of those diagrams?

[WeirdBits]

Switch sequence shown is, left to right, down/centre/up (type 1 and 2). Just remember the active contacts are the opposite of the handle position... handle down upper contacts, handle up lower contacts.

The matched coloured dots indicate the contacts/lugs that are linked in each position, so the green are one set of active contacts and lght blue are the other set. To test them just put the multimeter probes on one colour set at a time, red on one black on the other etc and check for continuity.

[Simon Barden]

With the switches, you only need to test the connections with the switch in the middle position. The switches have rotational symmetry, so it doesn't matter which way up they are. And you are only looking to determine whether your switches are on/on/on type 1 or 2, so in theory you can ignore the top two switches in that diagram.

However, just Googling MTS-2 (embossed on the side of your switch) seems to indicate that it's an on-off switch. The switch does have three positions doesn't it?

[WeirdBits]

That's why I wanted him to test all positions, to work out the switch type and ensure it's not faulty.

[Simon Barden]

Or possibly the wrong switch.

[Zandit75]

Definitely a 3-way switch, and I believe we sorted out the colours of the correct coils a couple of weeks ago when I checked the hum cancelling against the other single coil? Would that be right?
Sorry, I didn't get a chance to look at the guitar yesterday afternoon. I'll be looking at it tonight.

[Simon Barden]

I'd assume nothing for now, and find it all out by testing. I'd be surprised if it wasn't wired as the manufacturer's web wiring diagram for it, which could account for some of the things you've been experiencing, but probably not all.

So best to start with a blank sheet of paper, and take it from there.

[Zandit75]

Understood Simon, good advice.
I'll come back when I have some info.

[DrNomis_44]

I'll have to draw up a wiring diagram for my HotRod Strat so that others can use it in their builds, when I went to wire up all my pickups, I elected to wire them all up as Humbuckers, but there's no reason why coil-tapping couldn't be implemented, I may do it at a later stage, but I'm pretty happy with it as it is.


@ Zandit Good job with the wiring-up, how is it sounding now?

[Zandit75]

Nothing to report at this stage.
Thanks to commitments with the Brass Band, I was only able to disassemble all of the electrics on Saturday, and clean up all of the parts of solder as best I could before starting again from fresh.
On Sunday I fully intended o get everything sorted with readings etc, but was floored by a migraine that left me bed bound all day.
I'll have a look at it tonight and pass on the relevant information.

[FrankenWashie]

Nothing to report at this stage.
Thanks to commitments with the Brass Band, I was only able to disassemble all of the electrics on Saturday, and clean up all of the parts of solder as best I could before starting again from fresh.
On Sunday I fully intended o get everything sorted with readings etc, but was floored by a migraine that left me bed bound all day.
I'll have a look at it tonight and pass on the relevant information.

Oh dude, my better half suffers from those damnable migraines. Hers normally leave her unable to function, and usually curled on the cold bathroom floor or similar trying not to hurl (and not always succeeding). You have my sympathies.

[Zandit75]

Thanks bud, most appreciated.
Thankfully this time I wasn't sick, but I got the cold sweats up there at one point, and was on the verge of running to the toilet. I think I spent a total of about 4hrs out of bed yesterday, but was asleep for pretty much the rest of it.
Still popping the Nurofens today, but it's only a shadow of what it was.

[Simon Barden]

Hope it passes soon, Zandit. My commiserations.

[Zandit75]

I think I grabbed a dodgy multi meter to take home. I was only able to get measurements every now and then, even touching the two points together only gave me something occasionally.
I'll take the switch into work and check it against the other unit we have at work and see if that makes a difference. Otherwise I think I may need a new switch.

[Simon Barden]

Could just be a dead battery.

[FrankenWashie]

Thanks bud, most appreciated.
Thankfully this time I wasn't sick, but I got the cold sweats up there at one point, and was on the verge of running to the toilet. I think I spent a total of about 4hrs out of bed yesterday, but was asleep for pretty much the rest of it.
Still popping the Nurofens today, but it's only a shadow of what it was.

Glad to hear you are on the mend mate.

[Zandit75]

Ding Dong the switch is dead!!
The first multi meter had dodgy leads. However after using the other set at work it seems that the switch is dead. Absolutely no response whatsoever.
Considering I had some sound out of it originally, I reckon I fried it with too much heat from the soldering iron. Time to search for a new switch.

[WeirdBits]

Strange that it was working in the one position initially, maybe it was already on the way out. RealTone (http://www.realparts.com.au/electronics/mini-switches/on-on-on-dpdt-mini-switch-chrome.html) usually ship pretty quickly (pricey), but similar switches are available at lots of places.

Did you also double-check the pickup coil wire pairs? Just to be thorough.

[Zandit75]

Not yet Weirdy, I'll take the good MM home tonight and check them over. I didn't want to risk bring the guitar body in to work and get it damaged.

[Zandit75]

Just tested the coils, looks like we had them mixed up
Green and white
Black and red
Both connections showing about 4800

[Zandit75]

I just tested the single coil to ensure that was fine, and it is, showing about 5700, however the humbucker is not showing anything at all.
What am I doing wrong?

[wokkaboy]

Zandit, assuming this is the humbucker you got 4.8k for green/white and black and red, try joining green/white together and test black and red or vice versa. You need to test the ends of each of the single coils that make up the humbucker if that makes sense.
With both coils of the humbucker you should get a reading of about 9.6k

[Zandit75]

Sorry Wokka, the 4 coloured wires are for a single hot stack which is in the middle position.
I have a humbucker in the bridge position, and I can't get a reading out of it.
I tried two other humbuckers I have, and neither of them are showing any reading. They are all standard two wire HB.

[wokkaboy]

Hi Zandit, that's strange no reading in both 2 wire humbuckers. I would try chopping the bare wire off the ends and strip the insulation and try testing that in case the bare wire has been damaged. So I presume you are using the good multimeter from work ?

Also check if both wires from both humbuckers look damaged. Maybe your dogs have chewed them haha

Good luck !

[Zandit75]

Yep, did that to all humbuckers. Not sure why I'm not getting a reading.

[wokkaboy]

that's strange Zandit, have you got any other humbuckers you can test ?
My guess is they are damaged internally and one or both wires have come loose from the connection point.

[Zandit75]

I have three all together, and as I said, all tested negative on the multi meter.
Now, just to muddy the water even further, I used a lead plugged into an amp, touched the negative and positive ends on all three humbuckers and then tapped the top of the HB with a screw driver. All three made noise!!!
I've got no idea what is going on!

[WeirdBits]

Is the MM autoranging or do you have it set to a specific Ohm range, as in 10K?

[wokkaboy]

yes Zandit what resistance setting are you using ? on mine I set it to 20k. If on the wrong setting the reading may be too small to register a reading above zero.

[Simon Barden]

Just check that the MM probes are plugged into the right sockets. There's normally two sockets for the red/positive probe, one for voltage and resistance, and another for current measurements. Normally only one for the black/common probe. It's easy enough to plug in to the wrong socket by mistake and get no readings.

If that's fine, you could always test the multimeter resistance across the two outer legs of a potentiometer. You know that's going to be close to the nominal pot value - 250k or 500k - and this value is not affected by being an audio or linear pot.

[dave.king1]

Is the HB a split coil if so what is the resistance of each coil, if not one of the coils may be OC.

I've had this before

[Simon Barden]

Can you give us a photo of the multimeter or tell us what type it is? I'm just hoping that its not an Avo (or Aussie equivalent) resistance tester type designed for mains cables. If it is, some use a high voltage test signal, which can ruin more delicate circuits. Hopefully not, but it would explain the experience of getting initial resistance readings and then nothing.

[wazkelly]

Sounds like the calibration parameters were set too small as hinted at in Wokkas post cause if they are making noise there is definitely a current running through them.

Hey Zandit, did I throw in a 2nd 3 way switch when all the bits were posted down to you? If so maybe check it to see if it is working OK and not fried out by too much soldering iron heat.

[Zandit75]

I'm pretty sure the MM is auto ranging, It's a Milwaukee industrial unit, that only has two ports to put the leads into, so you can't stuff it up like Simon suggested.
I'm using the MM in two positions to double check everything I can.
Testing kOhms
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161220_222921_zpsod0yx8eb.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161220_222921_zpsod0yx8eb.jpg.html)

And normal ohms...I think
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161220_222912_zpsbs3rsi4d.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161220_222912_zpsbs3rsi4d.jpg.html)
On this second setting, I was able to get my readings of 4800 or thereabouts on the Hot Stack. I also got 5700 on the single coil in the neck, but on either setting I was unable to get a reading on any of the humbuckers.

BTW Simon, I tested one of my 500k pots, and was only able to get a reading of around 500k when I was using the middle and right hand posts. I got nothing when touching the two outer points like you suggested.

[Zandit75]

Hey Zandit, did I throw in a 2nd 3 way switch when all the bits were posted down to you? If so maybe check it to see if it is working OK and not fried out by too much soldering iron heat.
You only supplied one switch Waz, which was all we discussed. I picked up a new switch tonight from Jaycar for only $5, however I think I picked up the one and only On/Off/On switch that was in the wrong container!!
I'll be taking it back tomorrow for an exchange!

[wazkelly]

Hi mate, try this.....have your electrodes attached to the right bits and gradually rotate the big middle dial between the ohms symbol and the ones below to see what results, if any, that gives? Next would be to stick it back on ohms and start tapping the min/max button to see what that does followed by Hz and zero. Somewhere amongst these it should produce something unless of course it is auto ranging and has a mind of it's own.

[wazkelly]

You only supplied one switch Waz, which was all we discussed. I picked up a new switch tonight from Jaycar for only $5, however I think I picked up the one and only On/Off/On switch that was in the wrong container!!
I'll be taking it back tomorrow for an exchange!
Sorry about that, couldn't remember what was packed.

[Simon Barden]

If it's the model of clamp meter I think it is, looking at the manual for it, http://documents.milwaukeetool.com/58-14-2221d4.pdf, then I can understand your issues.

The second picture shows the buzzer setting for continuity. That only measures up to 600 ohms. The resistance setting (the omega setting) only reads up to 6k ohms.

It simply isn't capable of reading some of the higher resistances on the coils, so can't differentiate between an open circuit and a >6k ohm resistance coil.

You need to get hold of a multimeter more suited for the task. You really need to buy a cheap one as you can't do much testing without one. You could have bought one from Jaycar whilst you were there!

[Zandit75]

Hi mate, try this.....have your electrodes attached to the right bits and gradually rotate the big middle dial between the ohms symbol and the ones below to see what results, if any, that gives? Next would be to stick it back on ohms and start tapping the min/max button to see what that does followed by Hz and zero. Somewhere amongst these it should produce something unless of course it is auto ranging and has a mind of it's own.

I'm starting to think it has a mind of it's own. I tried every combination you suggested, and nothing.
Once I get the correct switch tomorrow, I'm just going to wire it up and see how it goes. Since I can get sound out of it, hopefully it will work as advertised!

[Zandit75]

If it's the model of clamp meter I think it is, looking at the manual for it, http://documents.milwaukeetool.com/58-14-2221d4.pdf, then I can understand your issues.

The second picture shows the buzzer setting for continuity. That only measures up to 600 ohms. The resistance setting (the omega setting) only reads up to 6k ohms.

It simply isn't capable of reading some of the higher resistances on the coils, so can't differentiate between an open circuit and a >6k ohm resistance coil.

You need to get hold of a multimeter more suited for the task. You really need to buy a cheap one as you can't do much testing without one. You could have bought one from Jaycar whilst you were there!

Alright, I'll look at this on Thursday when I get paid. So can you tell me what range I need to cover?
Thanks again everyone for the assist!

[wazkelly]

Most humbuckers can read up to 15k so a range up to 20k is required to get a result.

I think I bought a cheapish MM from Jaycar a while back and it works OK. They have a few to pick from and most likely better quality than you would find in a Green shed and probably cheaper too.

Here is a link for their $10 one... https://www.jaycar.com.au/low-cost-digital-multimeter-dmm/p/QM1500

Looks like it is good enough for what you need.

EDIT: IF YOU SCROLL DOWN THE PAGE YOU WILL FIND A CLEARNCE ONE FOR $6.95 - ABSOLUTE BARGAIN!!!

[Simon Barden]

Something like this should be fine; https://www.jaycar.com.au/economy-autorange-multimeter-with-non-contact-voltage-sensor/p/QM1529

It's auto-ranging, so you don't need to worry about selecting the correct range For what you need it for when working on guitars, it's fine.

If you do fancy spending a bit more money, then this https://www.jaycar.com.au/economy-true-rms-autorange-multimeter/p/QM1321 is an auto-ranging unit that has a few more features, like a capacitance tester, that you might find useful. But the first one will do you for now if you want to minimise your outlay.

[WeirdBits]

Yep, the Low Cost DMM will be fine if you just want it for basic guitar work. If you're testing lots of components regularly then it's nice to have one that can also test capacitance etc.

If your tests showed that the coil pairs are actually green/white, red/black then when you re-wire the mini-toggle you'll need to swap the red and white wires on the switch from the diagram (http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14539&d=1477118327). That is, your white wire will bridge the two diagonal lugs and the red wire will go the single lug instead. That explains why you were only getting sound in the 'series' position and nothing in the other two at the start of all this.

EDIT: Before you wire up your new switch test it and compare to that type 1/2 diagram. If it is type 2 then wire it as I described above. If it's type 1 then we'll need to change the switch connections slightly.

[Zandit75]

Thanks again guys! Love this place!!

[Zandit75]

Build is officially on hold until I can get hold of a 3-way on/on/on switch. Jaycar don't seem to stock one locally, and unless I'm looking for the wrong thing, I can't find one on their website. I'll try the local music shop, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.
I can find plenty on Ebay, but they will be several weeks before they arrive.
Alternatively, I can look at a different wiring option to utilise the on/off/on switch I now have.
What's the general consensus?

[Simon Barden]

On/off/on isn't great at all. Definitely get the right switch. There must be other suppliers of switches in Australia. Trouble is you're also running into the Christmas break, so it's probably going to be a bit slower.

Have you simply tried googling "mini DPDT on/on/on switch"?

[Simon Barden]

Try RS Components Australia. RS is always a good source for decent electrical/electronic parts. Here's one, but you may find others on the site. http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/toggle-switches/7109876/

[Zandit75]

Thanks Simon. Considering I deal with that company through work fairly regularly you would have thought they'd be top of mind.
Thanks again.

[WeirdBits]

Other alternatives: RealTone (http://www.realparts.com.au/electronics/mini-switches/on-on-on-dpdt-mini-switch-chrome.html), ALS (http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=141_63_306_745&products_id=1401), GuitarAust (https://www.guitaraust.com.au/body/electronics/mini-switches.html)

[Zandit75]

The boss let me order one on our account, and I'll fix him up for it once it arrives.
Ideally it will arrive tomorrow, but I doubt that will happen. I haven't received a shipping update of the item yet.

[dave.king1]

One of my mates had a problem with the switch in his LP Supreme and ordered a genuine replacement from Gibson which was intermittently faulty on installation.

Local music shop installed a no name one and it's been good ever since

[Zandit75]

Looks like my switch has been shipped. Hopefully it will arrive today at work before we knock off.

[Zandit75]

Looks like my switch has been shipped, and according to tracking is on board for delivery today. Hopefully it will arrive today at work before we knock off at lunch time, otherwise I have to stick around for it!

[Zandit75]

Switch has arrived, and we have just tested it.
I can confirm we have a type two switch!

[WeirdBits]

Nice! As per my previous post, just swap the red and white pickup wires from how they're drawn on the switch in my diagram and you should be good to go. Shout if you need any help.

[Zandit75]

Thanks bud, appreciate all the help you and everyone else has provided!

[Zandit75]

Sorry to throw another spanner in the works Weirdy, but I had to get another 5-way switch. Oddly enough, these switches do not handle being driven over by the wifes car when left in the middle of the shed floor accidentally.
This morning I rang both music shops within 20mins of my place, and while both shops had them in stock, one wanted $10.95, the other wanted $30!!
So I grabbed the cheaper switch, and a new set of strings for a grand total of $23!
The issue I have now though is the design of the switch is different, and I'll need guidance on how to wire it up.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161228_151251_zpsfd33i0xn.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161228_151251_zpsfd33i0xn.jpg.html)

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu124/zandit/20161228_151343_zpsm9kcoey4.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/zandit/media/20161228_151343_zpsm9kcoey4.jpg.html)

Thanks in advance.

[WeirdBits]

If you can't look after your toys you'll just have to learn to do without...

15975

So, from the above, when the lever is at the right side of the image it's bridge active, and when it's at the left it's neck active.

[Zandit75]

I get the idiot award for a couple of days!!
Thanks again mate, but where do the ground wires go? On the original diagram the two grounds from the neck and bridge pups went to a spot on the left of the switch, and another ground wire went from the volume pot to the right side of the switch.

[WeirdBits]

This type of switch doesn't have specific ground lugs like your pancaked 'import' style PBG switch. Typically, the metal switch frame will be grounded by the cavity shielding.

As such, you will need to connect the bridge and neck pup grounds to either the back of a pot or just run a short wire from a pot ground point and link it to the pup grounds at the switch (then insulate the join so it can't short) etc. The latter means that you don't have to strip the pup wires back a ton so the grounds will reach, if you get what I mean.

[Zandit75]

Yep, understood. The latter option sounds good.
Thanks for all this bud.

[Zandit75]

DONE!! And I actually have sound on all switch positions!
My only issue at the moment is static/scratchyness when I rotate either the volume or tone knobs.
Is this an earthing issue?

[wazkelly]

No, the scratchiness is mostly down to the pots themselves.

Did you use the old ones or the newer Chinese generics that I sent with all the other stuff as from memory they had never been used and should have been OK?

[Zandit75]

They were the 500k's you sent me, and I thought they would be fine. The originals were also 500k's, but from memory they were corroded.

[wazkelly]

Hmmm, best to wait for an expert to drop by and offer some comments. Myself, I would probably use some Freon spray as that used to work for me in the past (but that was last century???).

[WeirdBits]

Did you leave them out in the rain or give them to the dog to play with? I mean, after the driveway incident we need to check these things... ;)

Do you only get the static burst when turning them or does it continue once it's in a static making position? Both tone and volume or just one of the pots?

[Simon Barden]

Could be heat damage from soldering. They may just need cleaning. A contact cleaner/lubricator something like this https://www.jaycar.com.au/contact-cleaner-lubricant-spray-can/p/NA1012. I use Servisol a lot (though it comes in different packaging in the UK).

Don't ever use WD40 for pots or contacts! It is designed as a water dispersant, not a cleaner, and leaves an oily residue which whilst initially making things better, attracts dust and quite quickly makes things a lot worse.

[wazkelly]

Good advice Simon.

[Zandit75]

Thanks for the quick ideas guys.
I deserve that weirdy! :p
The static/scratchyness is only present when I rotate either of the knobs. It stops as soon as I stop moving the knob.

[Simon Barden]

Yes, sounds very much like the pots.