Final set up

[Pete Stanford]

G'day all, firstly sorry if this has been covered elsewhere. I've been playing for 40 years but never had to set up so...... I've now finished building my TL-1 and I'm now trying to set it up. I've done the action height but now to intonation. I'm using an Eno ET-68GB tuner set on "Guitar" (it has settings for Chronomatic, Guitar and Bass) and 440mz. I've tuned the 6E string, then checked with harmonic and then had to adjust the intonation and its all set. Now first problem is that I tuned the open 3rd, 2nd and 1st strings but when I tried to find the intonation for the 3, 2 and 1st strings the meter doesn't even register. I tried adjusting both ways but no go. I then tuned to best I could and all open strings sounded fine but as soon as I played a basic chord like E G or D it sounded s*&^house. Even though the E6 string is in tune, it was fine when playing E chord but was way out for a G chord. Obviously I've stuffed something up but what? Any clues or hints will be very much appreciated.

[tonyw]

Dont use harmonics when setting intonation, you will be out everytime, always fret the 12th

Start with the saddles all the way forward, then gradually bring them back in if needed to adjust intonation

[pablopepper]

^ Yep, agreed. Also the nut could be too high, which would make the first few frets sharp even when perfectly intonated.

[wokkaboy]

Hi Pete,
welcome to the forum.
As Pablo said I'd say your nut may be too high. Please post some photos of the nut from the side of the neck to show us the string height.
TL-1 will be harder to intonate with the stock bridge with the dual saddles on 1 adjustment screw but you should be able to get it pretty close

[Pete Stanford]

G'day all, firstly thanks a lot for your input so far. (Hopefully) there is a photo of the E6 string at the nut. From it you'll be able to see that the string height is just on 2mm. The other strings are A = 2mm, D = 2.5mm, G = 2.5mm, B = 2.1mm, E1 = 2.2mm. Also I bought another bridge last night with the six individual saddles so hopefully that will also help. Sorry Pitbull, I couldn't afford the ones you sell. I also plan to buy a bone nut. Are the ones from Pitbull accurate?

Cheers everyone.

[Muzza]

You don't use a ruler to measure the string height at the nut, and even if we did, that information is useless without seeing the height of the first fret - it's all related.

Here's the best way of checking nut string height... press the string down between the second and third fret, then press the same string down directly over the first fret. There should barely be a goldfish's pubic hair's worth of movement. If you can see the string moving at this point, the nut slots are too high. If there is NO movement, the string is already sitting on the fret and the slots are too deep. (but that won't be the case in this instance, by the sound of it...)

You need to do this for each individual string. If they're ALL too high, you can lower it by carefully filing the bottom of the nut. (after removing it, obviously)

If they're individually high, you'll need to buy some (expensive) nut files. If you intend to make a lot of guitars, it's worth the money, otherwise, take it to a luthier and get them to do it.

EDIT: Out of curiosity, I just checked my Maton BB1200 with a ruler and all my strings are just a smidge under 1.5mm at the nut.

So, unless you've got the thickest frets on the planet, I'd hazard a guess that you need to get your nut sorted.

EDIT II: Or you could just leave it and make it a bottleneck guitar. :cool:

[dingobass]

An easy workaround for slot files is to use an old string like a piece of dental floss.
Just make sure you angle back towards the headstock..

For the plain strings, gently tap the string with a hammer whilst holding it over a chunk of steel.
You wont need to smack it, just gentle taps to disfigure it.
And there you have a home made slot file that should get you out of the poo :)

[Pete Stanford]

An easy workaround for slot files is to use an old string like a piece of dental floss.
Just make sure you angle back towards the headstock..

For the plain strings, gently tap the string with a hammer whilst holding it over a chunk of steel.
You wont need to smack it, just gentle taps to disfigure it.
And there you have a home made slot file that should get you out of the poo :)

So what you're saying is for the plain strings, take a wound string and flatten it to the thickness of the plain strings...is that right? Sounds like a great idea to me. Does this still work on harder nuts such as bone?

[dingobass]

Sorry, I didn't explain that very well.....
Use the string that corresponds to the slot.
By gently tapping it you create a simple file that should cut bone etc.

[DrNomis_44]

The other way to measure the string height at the nut end is to get a set of Automotive Feeler Gauges and use them to measure the gap between the underside of the strings and the top of the first fret, you want to have a gap of at least .018 to 020 of an inch (sorry for the imperial measurements), so look through your Feeler Gauges and find one marked either .018 or .020, it should just fit in between the underside of the strings and the top of the first fret, if the string is a bit high you need to file the nut slot with an appropriately sized nut slot file.

[dingobass]

Wot Doc sed.
If you don't have feeler guages, a bank card is a good substitute.

[DrNomis_44]

You can also use the Feeler Gauges to measure the amount of Relief, or forward-bow in the neck, to do this you put a capo on the neck between the nut and the first fret, next you fret the low E-string at the fret closest to the body of the guitar, then you use your feeler gauges to measure the gap between the bottom of the low E-string and the top of either the 8th or 9th fret, you want to have enough forward bow for a gap of .010 inch (for Fender style guitars), or .012 inch (for Gibson style guitars), if there's too small a gap loosen the truss rod a bit, if there's too big a gap tighten the truss rod a bit, check the neck relief for the high E-string too, it should be about the same as for the low E-string, if they are radically different your neck may be twisted.


You can use a small steel ruler to check the action at the 12th fret, or (as Fender sometimes specify) the 17th fret, I find it helpful to use a X10 magnifying Loupe, on Fender Guitars you want the 12th, or 17th fret action (that is, the gap between the underside of the string and the top of the fret) to be about 2.5mm (4/64ths of an inch in imperial) for all the strings.

[dave.king1]

You can also use the Feeler Gauges to measure the amount of Relief, or forward-bow in the neck, to do this you put a capo on the neck between the nut and the first fret, next you fret the low E-string at the fret closest to the body of the guitar, then you use your feeler gauges to measure the gap between the bottom of the low E-string and the top of either the 8th or 9th fret, you want to have enough forward bow for a gap of .010 inch (for Fender style guitars), or .012 inch (for Gibson style guitars), if there's too small a gap loosen the truss rod a bit, if there's too big a gap tighten the truss rod a bit, check the neck relief for the high E-string too, it should be about the same as for the low E-string, if they are radically different your neck may be twisted.


You can use a small steel ruler to check the action at the 12th fret, or (as Fender sometimes specify) the 17th fret, I find it helpful to use a X10 magnifying Loupe, on Fender Guitars you want the 12th, or 17th fret action (that is, the gap between the underside of the string and the top of the fret) to be about 2.5mm (4/64ths of an inch in imperial) for all the strings.

Might have been easier to say 1/16th of an inch ;) which is actually closer to 1.6mm

[stan]

to answer you other question Dingobass makes bone nuts and they are great, send him a PM when you are ready

[dingobass]

To follow on what Doc said, an American quarter is the perfect thickness for setting relief..
I have a few in my tool kit especially for this job.

[Rabbitz]

Might have been easier to say 1/16th of an inch ;) which is actually closer to 1.6mm

Trouble is, Fender quote 4/64ths in their doco (believe it or not - it had me stumped at first)

[Rabbitz]

To follow on what Doc said, an American quarter is the perfect thickness for setting relief..
I have a few in my tool kit especially for this job.

US Mint states that a Quarter Dollar is 1.75mm in thickness. I was surprised they quoted sizes in metric.

For those who want to use US coins as feeler gauges:
https://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/?action=coin_specifications

[dingobass]

Forgot to mention to place the coin on the fingerboard, not the fret..........