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View Full Version : What's happened in the world of live music



dave.king1
12-02-2016, 09:29 AM
Wot I sed.

My little trio is just about ready to start gigging and we've been ringing around the clubs to hustle a bit of work here in Sydney and the first question we are being asked is do you have Public Liability Insurance and is all of your mains powered gear tagged and tested with current certification.

$21m PLI, that seems to be a hell of a lot for a few guys to get up and entertain for a few hours.

Back in the good old days the venue generally covered the punters and if you were doing your own promotion you had PLI via the Muso Union, apparently neither is the case anymore.

The three of us are all getting on a bit and we have no intention of doing more than one show a month so PLI really takes the edge of the whole exercise, not to mention tax.

What is the experience for our broader community on here ??

pablopepper
12-02-2016, 09:45 AM
Why the hell would performers be asked to cover public liability insurance? Test and tag, yeah I can understand that, but surely insurance is up to the venue. I have never heard of such a thing. Sounds to me like they are trying to discourage any type of performance, and then substitute with more pokies.

tonyw
12-02-2016, 09:46 AM
I was going out and doing country gigs, but having said that i quit playing in 2009 when my drummer took of to somewhere, we were a 2 piece for 16 yrs. The city was getting crazy, the whole music scene is crazy and yes everything has to be tagged, and i would take put some sort of insurance anyway, i always did, this is why i just like to sit home and record and make guitars etc.

dingobass
12-02-2016, 11:22 AM
I blame these bottom dwelling promoters.
A lot of young bands here in Perth have been forced into some really stupid situations such as not being allowed to perform more than once a month!
Back when I was a young bloke, bands used roll up to the pub and give the manager a tape of thier stuff, if he/she liked it they got the gig.
The rest was up to the band, if they rocked the joint they got more gigs..

Mr Fox69
12-02-2016, 01:18 PM
I used to work in the Live music scene in Sydney. There are some horrible promoters out there. One I had dealings with used to charge the venue for the PA and booking bands, then charged the bands to play in the venue. The bands had to charge at the door and hope enough people turn up just to break even. These were generally young bands, just out of school and looking to get a following.

dave.king1
12-02-2016, 02:06 PM
I used to work in the Live music scene in Sydney. There are some horrible promoters out there. One I had dealings with used to charge the venue for the PA and booking bands, then charged the bands to play in the venue. The bands had to charge at the door and hope enough people turn up just to break even. These were generally young bands, just out of school and looking to get a following.

That is truly ugly, I have only ever worked through a management agency here in Sydney through the 70s and early 80s and he had a bunch of bands working 6 shows a week minimum so we happily paid his 10%.

When I gave the band away he also looked after my fill in work getting me the two nights a week I wanted, bass player for hire ( don't read very well these days )

Wally was an older guy back then and I just googled him and the agency is still listed, he's got to be 90

DrNomis_44
12-02-2016, 03:20 PM
The live band scene up here in Darwin is a bit dead, not that many good venues, and all the great venues tend to get bands from down south rather than do any supporting of local acts, Bass In The Grass is a good example, there's a non-profit venue called the Happy Yess Club that's in Brownsmart in the Darwin CBD, I sometimes go there on Thursday night because that's when they have their open mic/jam nights, then there's the First Sunday Blues gig at the Pints Club in Mararra, been there a few times but my last time was a bit of a disaster because my mate who drove me there wasn't very organized, and I didn't get a chance to get my gear set up or do any soundchecks.

dingobass
12-02-2016, 04:48 PM
So the question is, how the actual f#ck do young bands get a break these days?

stan
12-02-2016, 05:16 PM
Since when does a band need PLI?
So if a light fitting falls on someone's head does the venue try and pass than on to the band.
The whole thing is ridiculous , DB is right, how do acts even get to start?

tonyw
12-02-2016, 05:27 PM
If a fight starts while the band is playing and someone gets seriously hurt, some venues deem them as your audience, not a pub patron, its more than ridiculous these days, i am glad to be out of it.

When i was with Premier we were doing 11 shows a week sometimes, lucky to do 11 a year when i finished.

Was offered a tour of Europe by a German company, everything was done for you, you just had to turn up pretty much.

dingobass
12-02-2016, 05:28 PM
Ok. Been thinking about this and have come up with a few ideas.
1. Hunt down and "disappear" all promoters.
2. Hunt down and "disappear" all insurance companies.
3. Hunt down and "disappear" all major record lable executives.
4. Hunt down and "disappear " all those NIMBYs who complain about loud music that decide to live near venues.

That should do the trick :p

DrNomis_44
12-02-2016, 05:37 PM
Before organizations like APRA (Australasian Performing Rights Association) were formed, the Music Industry was a very exploitative industry to work in, alot of the bands and musicians got ripped off and didn't make much money.

tonyw
12-02-2016, 05:50 PM
I am a member of APRA i still dont make any money lol although i did get a royalty payment last year for $4 and went and bought a stubby.

I make more money out of prospecting than playing thats for sure.

Break down the last gig i played

2piece band 4 hours for $170 free meals free drinks

Overnight accommodation $65
Fuel $35
Travel time total 4 hours

Setup at 5pm before the punters front up break it down at midnight

Dinner at 7pm play 8 till 12 with one 30min break

Amount left $40 drummer got half, rolling in cash

Back home the next day grumpy, tired and broke lol

DrNomis_44
12-02-2016, 06:20 PM
I'm a member of APRA too, and I haven't made much either, my last royalty payment was a total of just $0.45, but it got chewed up by AIA Australia Limited who saw fit to automatically deduct $12.47 from my bank account right after my Royalty payment.


Maybe I should get into doing some Gold prospecting with a Metal Detector.

dave.king1
12-02-2016, 06:57 PM
I was a member of APRA in the 70s got squat and still have most of it, my two band mates joined around the same time and still get regular royalty cheques 25 years after they stopped recording ( we went back into the studio in 2009 and have one single to show for it )

dingobass
12-02-2016, 07:21 PM
I am a member of APRA i still dont make any money lol although i did get a royalty payment last year for $4 and went and bought a stubby.

I make more money out of prospecting than playing thats for sure.

Break down the last gig i played

2piece band 4 hours for $170 free meals free drinks

Overnight accommodation $65
Fuel $35
Travel time total 4 hours

Setup at 5pm before the punters front up break it down at midnight

Dinner at 7pm play 8 till 12 with one 30min break

Amount left $40 drummer got half, rolling in cash

Back home the next day grumpy, tired and broke lol

Yhep. Who else but musos have the dedication to load 5k worth of gear into a $500 car and travel 100klm to play for $50??? :p

DrNomis_44
12-02-2016, 07:31 PM
So, I reckon that to make music more profitable for musicians, we need to "Cut-Out" the middlemen, or the ones who are making, or seek to make, a profit off musicians in order for it to be economically viable.


One way to do that is to go independent, this basically means doing all the promo and etc yourself.

wazkelly
12-02-2016, 07:33 PM
Yhep. Who else but musos have the dedication to load 5k worth of gear into a $500 car and travel 100klm to play for $50??? :p
Yep, sums up why my last paying gig was December 1985. We were a 5 piece and unfortunately had to hire lights, PA, and roadies with a truck. Job paid $550 less 10% to agent, less production hire, etc. left $100 to divide between 5. Half hour drive across town, had to pay for a meal and drinks, and at the time due to the hot sweaty venues my $40 Rotosound Roundwounds barely lasted 2 weeks without needing to be replaced. It took a while to figure out it was cost me plenty to go out and play at a venue. Pity the poor drummers as they have even higher maintenance costs with broken sticks, skins, and eventually cracked or broken cymbals.

These days production cost wouldn't be so bad as the Nanny States have decreed such low dB levels that you could hear a punter break wind above a band playing. Heck we used to rehearse louder than what you are allowed to play in most venues nowadays.

keloooe
12-02-2016, 07:42 PM
Alrighty, time for me to shed some light here...


I blame these bottom dwelling promoters.
A lot of young bands here in Perth have been forced into some really stupid situations such as not being allowed to perform more than once a month!

One of my bands favorite venues has a booker (who im great friends with) with a similar attitude but it is a good one. Having the same band coming in every week can get VERY annoying for young bands. Wrangler Studios (the venue I'm talking about) is all about young / small bands looking for a damn cool place to really kick off what could be a career, Jayden basically only ever wants any band performing there once a month, in fact my band have had to turn down a couple of other great gigs recently.


I used to work in the Live music scene in Sydney. There are some horrible promoters out there. One I had dealings with used to charge the venue for the PA and booking bands, then charged the bands to play in the venue. The bands had to charge at the door and hope enough people turn up just to break even. These were generally young bands, just out of school and looking to get a following.

Hence why the local scene nowadays is starting to be more defined, but I do know of a few young bands definitely getting their name out right now, which is pretty bloody cool considering im friends with them :D


So the question is, how the actual f#ck do young bands get a break these days?

Even I as a local, young musician cant answer that DB, it's really all down to the situation at hand, city, genre, social media presence etc etc

wazkelly
12-02-2016, 07:54 PM
Not sure when you were in Canberra DB to remember this but way back in the punk era of 79 & 80 several bands used to hire their own halls and put on a gig. It used to be called Rock Against Boredom. Absolute mayhem would have been a better description.

Probably no insurance whatsoever and some of the pogoing induced fights were legendary with skinheads and other yobbos having a go at each other. Nonetheless it was a start for many young acts at the time who couldn't get a gig anywhere else.

keloooe
12-02-2016, 07:56 PM
For a young band it's surprisingly easy to get started now with all the resources at your disposal...

wazkelly
12-02-2016, 08:01 PM
Yep, looking at your forum signature none of that social media was around last century when most of us were starting out. Geez, mobile phones didn't even show up until about 1987 and cost about $3,000 or more when 1st launched.

tonyw
13-02-2016, 03:32 AM
Got to find a phone box to ring Melbourne tell them we are broken down 100k south of Mt Gambier, ok then i will start hitch hiking, see if i can get a lift to a phone. Best break down was mid 70's middle of the Hay Plains in 42C heat and having to sleep in the back of the truck with all the gear, or stripping out an auto tranny in the middle of Victoria, hitching to the nearest town and praying the mechainic had a seal kit for it.

Oh to be young and silly again

dave.king1
13-02-2016, 04:16 AM
. Geez, mobile phones didn't even show up until about 1987 and cost about $3,000 or more when 1st launched.

The first commercial mobile phone service was in the US in 1947 (AT&T ), guess you wouldn't have put it in your pocket though

Andy40
13-02-2016, 05:03 AM
Public Liability Insurance is there to cover your arse, so if someone sues you guys for a broken neck (ie if some drunk punter trips over your stuff and fall headfirst into an amp), you pay your excess and its bye bye to drunk punter. Even if a venue didn't ask for PLI, I'd be getting it.

Forget the promoters, insurance companies etc. Your problem originates from lawyers.

You might want to put those guys at the top of your list DB!

wazkelly
13-02-2016, 09:54 AM
The first commercial mobile phone service was in the US in 1947 (AT&T ), guess you wouldn't have put it in your pocket though

Hi Dave, the first ones here filled an entire brief case and next came the half Besser Block sized Motorola which was my first mobile phone. Amazing how we had to get them smaller only to now see them grow in size again to accommodate larger screens.

dingobass
13-02-2016, 10:57 AM
Hahahaha! Not wrong there Wazz..
Its a bit like portable music devices, started out big and clumsy then got smaller, now it is the headphones that have grown in size....
Saw a kid the other day who's headphones were almost bigger than he was!

headcaver
13-02-2016, 01:26 PM
NSW killed its awesome live music scene. Musicians move to melbourne now

Maddogm
13-02-2016, 04:36 PM
It's for reasons mentioned in this thread that I try and buy merch at the pub gigs I go to.

The Go Set put out an awesome Doco last year where they talk about how hard it is to afford to be in a band. One of the things they mention is there target break even amount is $500 per gig ($100 each). I mentioned this to their drummer at a recent gig as we watched one of their supports that night: a 20 piece ska band. He pointed out not only would they stuggle to cover their costs, but the rider wouldn't go far either.

I'm lucky living in Melbourne's inner north in that there are dozens of live venues within walking distance

dingobass
13-02-2016, 05:49 PM
On the subject of acceptable noise levels.
According to our local noise restrictions, you are only allowed to practice for one hour a day and the volume cant exceed that of people talking outside at a BBQ.....I shite you not...
Yet it is perfectly OK to have a freaking noisy roof top evaporative cooler running flat out 24 hours a day.....

The neighbours are about to get a brick thrown through theirs if they dont turn the bloody thing down at night..
The Minister for War and Finance and I like to have the window open a crack at night. Perhaps we are weird for liking a bit of fresh air?
This has been impossible since the a hole neighbors decided to build their glorified chook shed style house right on the boundary...
They have a 1000sq block so they decide to build right on the fence line, with the evap on our side of their roof....
Guess what? It is on the same level as our bedroom...
And now, to cap it off, and hey gave the obnoxious teenage son a drum kit for Xmas.... Be ok if they gave him a set of brushes and pads for it but no...
So our weekends are filled with hours of crappy drumming and noisy air cooler...

Stay tuned for the out come of my plans for Sunday...
Hartke 3500 with 410 cab - check
Several Bass guitars tuned and ready-check
Nice neighbors away for weekend- check
Nasty death trash metal cds cued up for play along - check

This is gunna be fun

stan
13-02-2016, 07:27 PM
Haha DB, now that I'd watch...

DrNomis_44
13-02-2016, 08:01 PM
On the subject of acceptable noise levels.
According to our local noise restrictions, you are only allowed to practice for one hour a day and the volume cant exceed that of people talking outside at a BBQ.....I shite you not...
Yet it is perfectly OK to have a freaking noisy roof top evaporative cooler running flat out 24 hours a day.....

The neighbours are about to get a brick thrown through theirs if they dont turn the bloody thing down at night..
The Minister for War and Finance and I like to have the window open a crack at night. Perhaps we are weird for liking a bit of fresh air?
This has been impossible since the a hole neighbors decided to build their glorified chook shed style house right on the boundary...
They have a 1000sq block so they decide to build right on the fence line, with the evap on our side of their roof....
Guess what? It is on the same level as our bedroom...
And now, to cap it off, and hey gave the obnoxious teenage son a drum kit for Xmas.... Be ok if they gave him a set of brushes and pads for it but no...
So our weekends are filled with hours of crappy drumming and noisy air cooler...

Stay tuned for the out come of my plans for Sunday...
Hartke 3500 with 410 cab - check
Several Bass guitars tuned and ready-check
Nice neighbors away for weekend- check
Nasty death trash metal cds cued up for play along - check

This is gunna be fun



DB, I didn't know you were into Death Thrash-Metal.

Maddogm
13-02-2016, 08:06 PM
Stay tuned for the out come of my plans for Sunday...
Hartke 3500 with 410 cab - check
Several Bass guitars tuned and ready-check
Nice neighbors away for weekend- check
Nasty death trash metal cds cued up for play along - check

This is gunna be fun

http://i.imgur.com/gxJfFYl.gif

DrNomis_44
13-02-2016, 08:21 PM
It sounds like DB's neighbors are about to be hit with some serious Bass.

dingobass
13-02-2016, 11:11 PM
DB, I didn't know you were into Death Thrash-Metal.

Hahahahaha, nah, but over the years I have collected all sorts of weird and wonderful, and not so wonderful music...
I do have a Cannibal Corpse cd somewhere... That should be fun cranked up to 11 :)

DrNomis_44
14-02-2016, 12:47 AM
Hahahahaha, nah, but over the years I have collected all sorts of weird and wonderful, and not so wonderful music...
I do have a Cannibal Corpse cd somewhere... That should be fun cranked up to 11 :)


I had a copy of "The Bleeding" by Cannibal Corpse on CD before I moved to Darwin, it was the extremest music I had ever listened to.

kimball492
14-02-2016, 12:55 AM
DB can I ask a big favour maybe avoid working on the guitar while your zapping the neighbours lol

wazkelly
16-02-2016, 07:12 PM
So how did the pop up death metal gig go?

dingobass
16-02-2016, 08:06 PM
Well, it was a bit disappointing.....
They went out for the day :(

Oh well, there is always next Sunday :)

wazkelly
20-02-2016, 06:14 PM
Hey DB, just a reminder that tomorrow is Sunday therefore Popup Death Metal Concert #2.

tonyw
20-02-2016, 06:20 PM
Put this on and crank it.. works for me


https://youtu.be/MeqRtvOsWdQ

dingobass
20-02-2016, 07:05 PM
Im on it Wazz...

Going to start the day by firing up the thicknesser and run me whole bunch of Rock Maple through it.

Morning smoko.

Then I think it will be time for the compressor to make an appearance, gotta shoot some Nitro.

Lunch.

Then Cannibal Corpse, followed by some Ronnie James Dio capped off with Deep Purple.

Arvo tea.

Then the angle grinder (depending on fire restrictions) to break down a few old Aviaries.

Miss Fe gets home from work, DB has innocent look on face :p

wazkelly
20-02-2016, 07:26 PM
Any chance for audio and or video evidence of said misdemeanours?

Dedman
08-03-2016, 03:22 PM
I once lived above a bunch of factories I had the whole top floor that used to be a dance studio. During the week the noise didn't worry me because I was getting up and going to work, but on weekends we had a panel beater would come in at 7am, turn on the compressor to make out he was working, then smoke cones and cough for 30 mins, then leave again. His workshop was directly under the bed.
Sonic retribution time! Ministry's TV Set on repeat, Rotel Quad on 11 and go out to work for the day.
Never came in on a Sunday again.