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dingobass
05-11-2015, 02:19 PM
Why pay $300 plus for a binding jig when you can make one yourself?

Sure, it ain't pretty but it will do the job :)

wokkaboy
05-11-2015, 02:25 PM
nice one DB, so the idea is to feed the body into the router and rotate the body ? Is there enough clearance to do the binding channel around cutaways and hard to get places ?
Why do you need so much height adjustment with your nicely cut slots in the RHS beam ? I assume you drop the router down so it sits at the body height ?

dingobass
05-11-2015, 02:28 PM
Yes, you feed the body around and there is enough clearance for cutaways..

The extra height is for working on Acoustic Guitars.

wokkaboy
05-11-2015, 02:31 PM
no worries DB I thought that was the case for higher body axes/bass's.
Nice one, must have been hard work cutting the height adjustment slots, is that RHS about 2-3mm thick ?

stan
05-11-2015, 03:29 PM
aahhh, i see it, cool and simple, thanks

dingobass
05-11-2015, 05:40 PM
Was easy as, Woks.
Drill holes either end and attack with angle grinder!

jarrod
05-11-2015, 05:44 PM
Sometimes simple just works. Nice tool DB.

wokkaboy
05-11-2015, 05:47 PM
ah of course DB, the old angle grinder removes steel real quick !

Crusader
07-11-2015, 08:20 AM
And it saves me some difficult work. 👍

dingobass
09-11-2015, 12:16 PM
And here we have Crusaders LP getting the treatment :p

wokkaboy
09-11-2015, 12:18 PM
nice one DB, how come you cutting a new binding channel does Crusader want different colour binding ?

dingobass
09-11-2015, 12:34 PM
Thats the one, Woks.
Also cut a groove down the centre as well, Crusader has a very funky idea for the finish on this axe that is gunna rock the house down :)

wokkaboy
09-11-2015, 12:39 PM
sounds good Crusader's plans DB, wonder what is going in the centre strip

dingobass
09-11-2015, 01:13 PM
A length of binding....

wokkaboy
09-11-2015, 01:17 PM
ah ok DB that should look cool Crusader

gavinturner
09-11-2015, 01:30 PM
Nice work DB. How many of these are we going to see made now I wonder? At least one in holgate I know that. 😀

cheers,
Gav.

Crusader
09-11-2015, 03:20 PM
And here we have Crusaders LP getting the treatment :p

AWESOME!!! Can't wait to get my hands on it :)

Cheers DB thanks for the help.

Gavin1393
09-11-2015, 04:29 PM
Yes, you feed the body around and there is enough clearance for cutaways..

The extra height is for working on Acoustic Guitars.
If you need to work on acoustics then (as DB will tell you) you will meed to make a 'tray' to support the acoustic guitar body as you will want the top or bottom that you will be routing to be perfectly level so that the router bit cuts evenly and straight throughout the process....also be mindful to follow the grain with the router bit to avoid tear out with an acoustic....also with an electric but its less of an issue!

Gavin1393
09-11-2015, 04:31 PM
And here we have Crusaders LP getting the treatment :p
Nice work DB!

dingobass
09-11-2015, 04:51 PM
What Gavmiester said about levelling is very important.
With Crusaders body I had to shim it in a few spots to level it up.
Nothing fancy, just slivers of timber stuck down with double sided sticky tape.
However, I will make up a set of proper height adjustable feet.... One day :p

Crusader
09-11-2015, 04:57 PM
ah ok DB that should look cool Crusader

Yes I am hoping so.. It will be different anyway.

Gavin1393
09-11-2015, 05:07 PM
However, I will make up a set of proper height adjustable feet.... One day :p
I have a template...... :)

Muzza
07-03-2016, 01:52 PM
I made something similar to remove the binding on my second build.
I had a few design problems, but all were overcome. More details in my build diary

kimball492
07-03-2016, 06:43 PM
Great idea Muzza

dingobass
09-03-2016, 07:28 AM
Good idea re drawer track for height adjustment. (File that one away for future reference)
The Ally angle is a nice touch, much neater.

As for the router floating on the top, not such a good idea for a few reasons.

1. The binding channel will mirror any undulations in the top, and magnify them. This can leave you with a wobbly binding line.
It would also be very difficult to rout an arch top instrument evenly.
2. Would be very easy to accidentally have the trimmer drop off the edge. I can see the plenum crashing down and damaging the binding rout...
3. It is a good idea to be able to see down through the plenum and watch what the router bit is doing. Gives you a better chance to stop if a chunk of tree starts coming away from the edge of the rout.. This can happen.

All you need to have touching the guitar is the guide bearing. Hence the need to lock the trimmer in place (easy mod).
Then by using a sliding board with adjustable clamps to hold the body level and secure, you simply run the body around the router bit.
This will always give a perfect result, regardless of instrument type, size and style of binding.

So, quick modification to lock the trimmer and lose the nylon washer and that will be a very handy routing jig.

Nice to have the time to think through designs, mine was built on the spot to do a job.. Think it took me less than an hour to design and build it.
But hey, it does the job required so for now it will do..

stan
09-03-2016, 08:21 AM
In the end Muzza, if it is working for you, then it works, enjoy the process mate

dingobass
09-03-2016, 01:31 PM
To point out the problem of wobbly and inaccurate binding channels cut by having the router rest on the top, I have taken a few pics to make it easy to see where I am coming from.

I have used a LP body for this example.

First pic shows the channel correctly cut as denoted by the blue tape.
You will see that the bottom edge of the binding is parallel to the back edge.

Black penline shows approx where the bottom of the binding would run if the router ran over the top.
As you can see, it is out by a country mile and would look very ordinary indeed..

Next up is a pic of a true arch top Guitar. As you can see the arch is present on front and back.
The only secure way to mount this type of body is with adjustable clamps.

The same would apply to an Acoustic Guitar, as the back is not flat on these either.

This is why you wont see a floating type of binding jig in too many Professional Luthiers workshops.
I have spoken to some of my collegues, and they all agree with me on this one.
Binding router jigs should be height lockable and not run on the body for very good reasons.

wokkaboy
09-03-2016, 01:47 PM
DB that blue tape line at the top isn't parallel with the top, the black penline is.

So with the pic of the almost finished LP the binding is thicker in this section, are they supposed to be like that ? I always assumed the binding was parallel with the top the whole way around.

Looks like you are saying the binding is parallel with the bottom of the body ?

dingobass
09-03-2016, 01:55 PM
Yes Wokka. The blue tape is meant to be parallel with the bottom edge as it should be.
Black line denotes munted binding channel......
The reason you want the binding parallel with the bottom or back edge of the guitar is simply because it looks better and it is much easier to install.

wokkaboy
09-03-2016, 02:06 PM
wow ok DB, I never knew that ! Will have to check my chinese LP copy !

so that means you have to use binding about 4-5mm thicker for the whole job so it fits the wider sections ? Then just trim it with a sharp knife and sand ?

Marcel
02-07-2017, 08:05 AM
Looking to do my first binding job on a non PBG Denim Tele project and am 3/4 the way through building a routing jig very similar to yours DB... However there is one big question that is still outstanding for me, and that be - Which glue do I use to secure the binding to my build?

I have TiteBond for set neck jobs, Titebond III for outdoor jobs, PVA for general wood working jobs, and superglue for all manner of other jobs, and I thought Weldbond made by Frank T Ross & sons in Canada might be a reasonable choice for doing binding. Any other and/or better recommendations there DB?

Brendan
02-07-2017, 12:52 PM
Depending on the individual - some will go straight acetone, but others go with Tarzan's Grip - not sure whether that is available outside Australia though.

Marcel
02-07-2017, 03:20 PM
Thanks Brendan.

I've used Acetone for a lot of things, particularly in the cleaning department but never as an outright glue onto wood.

'Welding' a join in the binding with Acetone makes sense as many plastics will melt when in contact with Acetone. Not sure if I want much of that effect when putting on the 'Mother of Pearl' (as SWAMBO calls it) binding to my Tele partscaster build. I'll need to do some trials first.

Maddogm
02-07-2017, 03:22 PM
Depending on the individual - some will go straight acetone
I've seen Acetone mentioned a couple of times in relation to gluing binding. Acetone is a solvent rather than a glue, I can understand it for sticking binding to itself but I wouldn't have thought it would stick binding to wood. Or does it soften the binding enough that it sticks to the wood itself?

JB RETRO
02-07-2017, 04:58 PM
I've seen Acetone mentioned a couple of times in relation to gluing binding. Acetone is a solvent rather than a glue, I can understand it for sticking binding to itself but I wouldn't have thought it would stick binding to wood. Or does it soften the binding enough that it sticks to the wood itself?

Great question, I'd like to know that as well

Brendan
02-07-2017, 07:17 PM
Just going on this guy's binding effort - he uses acetone...


https://youtu.be/hszYf0V7HlA

Marcel
02-07-2017, 08:03 PM
Nice binding result...

Got the picture fine with the Acetone, Sadly it probably will not work on a denim covered body as sanding the denim to the same extent as in the video might cause an issue...

Marcel
02-08-2017, 02:06 PM
Took a leaf out of DB's book and built a jig to do the routing for binding. Test cuts worked well, just need a 1/4 inch shaft rebate bit that gives me the correct cut depth and I'll be able to proceed with my partscaster Alder Denim Tele build...

The rope is only for stability. On its own there is some wobble in the motor head that I didn't want, so putting a little tension on the metal frame fixes that. Test cut on the pine block looks quite good by my half blind eyes...

wokkaboy
02-08-2017, 02:14 PM
cool idea Marcel, is there a way to make the router to bracket connection more sturdy so the router has little movement ? I assume you move the body underneath and the pattern bit follows the edge of the body?

Marcel
02-08-2017, 03:41 PM
Not really Wokka. The router comes with a L shape bracket that is solid enough to be used as a guide but is just a little light to hold the router on its own. A more solid L bracket would be better. My little arrangement with the rope keeps the L bracket under light tension and holds the router quite steady.

Yes, the job moves under the router and follows the pattern or rebate bit bearing. The base board is standard plastic coated builder concrete form ply. The upright strut is a Uni-strut piece bolted to some pine 45x90 under the form ply.

WeirdBits
02-08-2017, 04:00 PM
Great little trimmers, I wouldn't be without mine.

Simon Barden
02-08-2017, 04:09 PM
I guess you'd just have to make the cantilever arm and slide out of much thicker material. Also, the closer in you can get the router to the upright, the less wobble there will be. I would have thought you could move the router much further in for most binding jobs. The only time it will need to be out further is for routing out the inside edges of body horns/cutaways.

Incidentally, until the demise of the LP Standard in 1960, the original Les Paul's binding followed the curve of the top in the cutaway. So you always got a section of the maple cap showing, like this:

21325

Only after the reintroduction of the Les Paul to the Gibson line in 1968, did the binding start following the line of the maple cap in this area. Even now, it's only the historic style Les Paul reissues that are produced with the top curve-following binding.

wokkaboy
02-08-2017, 04:12 PM
cool Simon didn't know that !

@ Marcel no worries as long as you thing the jig is safe to use. As Simon suggested would be less movement of the router the closer it is to the support post

Marcel
02-08-2017, 06:34 PM
The jig is as safe (and solid) as any router can be. Without hacking up the guide that came with the router there is not much chance of getting it closer to the upright post. The 2mm thick Uni-strut is very solid with two 10mm bolts holding it up and another two 10mm bolts holding onto the 5mm thick outrigger. The router has its standard 6mm bolt holding the L bracket to it within some vertical guides that are part of the router, and the L bracket and the outrigger are held fast with another two 6mm bolts. It aint moving, and if it gets loose I'll know a long long time before things start falling on the floor. The rope just steadies the top of the router motor from minor flexing of the L bracket and outrigger structure when the job is in contact with the router bit. Minor height adjustments can still easily be made via the lock clamp and toothed adjustment wheel on the front of the router. If major changes in height are needed then the rope comes off and the outrigger height is changed to suit the new needed height.

The Makita model router/edge trimmer I'm using has speed control built in. Varies the bit speed from 10k to 30k rpm. Around 14k to 16k seems the best speed for the bit I'm currently using. The bit is a two 12mm blade 35mm with a 29mm bearing so I get a 3mm rebate. Really I need a 30.4mm bearing to get the rebate the perfect depth for how I want to do this binding job. There are a few local places near here I can go to get what I'm after.

I probably should have included the Tele body in the photos. The table is 600mm wide by 450mm deep so there is enough space either side of the router to comfortably rest a guitar body.