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DrNomis_44
03-11-2015, 05:01 AM
Some of you might have noticed me mentioning "Tuner Backlash" in some of my previous thread posts, and I thought I would explain what Tuner Backlash, or Tuning Machinehead Backlash is in this thread, so, what is Tuner Backlash?


Tuner Backlash is the amount of play in a Tuning Machinehead where the Tuner capstan doesn't rotate as you're turning the knob, what happens is this, you rotate the tuner knob to bring a string up to pitch but nothing happens till you reach a certain point, then the Tuner capstan starts rotating and increases the tension on the string, when you rotate the tuner knob in the other direction to lower the string pitch the same thing happens, this combines with any friction in the nut slots to make tuning a guitar accurately to pitch difficult, it can also make keeping the guitar in tune hard too as the string-tension either side of the nut tries to equalize, you might have noticed this on a guitar with worn out tuners that have difficulty holding pitch.


When Tuning Machinehead manufacturers design Tuners one of the goals is to reduce Tuner Backlash as much as possible to increase tuning accuracy, some designs, like the Stenberger designed Gearless Tuners eliminate Tuner Backlash by alot, I've found that the Gearless Tuners have the least amount of Tuner Backlash out of all the sets of Tuners I have ever bought.

Sometimes Tuner Backlash can be caused by excessive wear on the internal gear system, sometimes it is caused by a loose-fitting Tuner knob, sometimes it's simply caused by manufacturing defects, or poor quality manufacturing in general.


I've bought a few sets of Tuners from some well known manufacturers and brand new, right out of the box, within each set there were a few Tuners with significant Tuner Backlash, most of the sets were of the more modern sealed and permanently lubricated types.

stan
03-11-2015, 06:05 AM
thanks DrN, interesting.

i guess you can have good and bad in all tuners, how how you found the stock PBG ones stack up, considering that they are pretty inexpensive?

DrNomis_44
03-11-2015, 06:36 AM
thanks DrN, interesting.

i guess you can have good and bad in all tuners, how how you found the stock PBG ones stack up, considering that they are pretty inexpensive?



It's very hard for me to say how the stock PBG Tuners stack up since I'm still yet to purchase my very first PBG kit, the first kit I would like to buy is an STA-1M strat kit as a replacement for the Mexican Strat I traded for the Chibson SG, I might do an evaluation on the stock tuners when I do get around to buying the kit, should be pretty interesting, how do you feel the stock PBG Tuners stack up?, have you had any with Tuner Backlash?

dingobass
03-11-2015, 07:37 AM
Tuner backlash is a very common problem indeed...
I have had peeps bring brand new top end Guitars in wondering why the buggers would not stay in tune... Guess what? Tuner backlash.....

In my experience, the only tuners I have come across that have been consistantly good are the Steinberger direct pull.. Their design makes it practically impossible for backlash to occour.

With the PBG supplied tuners, I have found some to be excellent and others average but on the whole for a budget priced tuner they are reasonable.

keloooe
03-11-2015, 07:48 AM
Quick question DB, do they have any direct pull tuners for bass?

And I agree, PBG tuners are actually alright for inexpensive tuners but there are much better ones out there, I've got a gotoh set on my bass and there's little to none backlash!

DrNomis_44
03-11-2015, 08:14 AM
Quick question DB, do they have any direct pull tuners for bass?

And I agree, PBG tuners are actually alright for inexpensive tuners but there are much better ones out there, I've got a gotoh set on my bass and there's little to none backlash!



Not sure, Steinberger may manufacture a Bass version of their Gearless Tuners, you could try going to the Steinberger website and check it out.

stan
03-11-2015, 09:21 AM
i think stock pbg are good for what they are

dingobass
03-11-2015, 09:33 AM
Quick question DB, do they have any direct pull tuners for bass?

And I agree, PBG tuners are actually alright for inexpensive tuners but there are much better ones out there, I've got a gotoh set on my bass and there's little to none backlash!

Unfortunately no... If they did I would be using them.....

wokkaboy
03-11-2015, 09:39 AM
I agree with others the stock PBG tuners aren't bad, some have had less backlash but it depends on the guitar model and the nut friction and usually takes a few weeks for a neck to set in and strings stretch.

keloooe
03-11-2015, 09:45 AM
Unfortunately no... If they did I would be using them.....

Aw damn, that would have been awesome!

wokkaboy
03-11-2015, 09:50 AM
hey Pest you can always get some of DB's all time favourite tuners - hipshot hahahha

dingobass
03-11-2015, 10:59 AM
Gee, that cupboard under the stairs is getting crowded....

wokkaboy
03-11-2015, 11:16 AM
remember DB I can't be in the cupboard downstairs as I pour the beers in the naughty warehouse, so I have the most important job out of everyone !

DrNomis_44
03-11-2015, 11:19 AM
Are they picking on you DB?

wokkaboy
03-11-2015, 11:39 AM
hey Doc why would we pick on DB when he's played close to the last 10 pranks on me ?

DrNomis_44
03-11-2015, 11:42 AM
Lol, you guys just made my day.

dingobass
03-11-2015, 12:31 PM
Woks, I am sure there are others in the warehouse that can pour a beer :p

My Spidie senses tell me that there is another avatar hack on the horizon.....

wokkaboy
03-11-2015, 12:55 PM
sure anyone can pour a beer DB but will they have beer knowledge and passion that I have ?
Plus with about 2.5 years of pizza oven experience I am too useful to be locked in the naughty cupboard with Pest !

vh2580
03-11-2015, 01:23 PM
Careful Woks you might get outsourced and "Steve from Sydney" might do your duties remotely.

andrewdosborne
03-11-2015, 01:25 PM
Remember the 4,127km beer pipe I proposed from the NSW naughty warehouse home-brew keg...!

DrNomis_44
03-11-2015, 02:19 PM
Lol....you guys have me in stitches now.....*Giggles uncontrollably*


Owwww.....my ribs are hurting......

keloooe
03-11-2015, 03:02 PM
sure anyone can pour a beer DB but will they have beer knowledge and passion that I have ?
Plus with about 2.5 years of pizza oven experience I am too useful to be locked in the naughty cupboard with Pest !

Ha more like I don't want to be locked in with YOU!!! Just remember I know where you live Wokka... *evil laugh*

jarrod
03-11-2015, 05:33 PM
From an engineering point of view, any gear / thread must have an amount of backlash (clearances ) to operate or it will cam up. If a tuner is more than 1/8 of a turn out then to me the tolerances are too sloppy. I have never had a problem with Gotoh or Grover.