Series 1 Scratchy

[kells80aus]

yeah yeah I am still alive. a lot poorer these days. Thanks IBM for the redundancy.

Be warned, this build is going to be a labour of love and will take a rediculously long time

Ok I am going to build another scratchy. For non Aussie builders this is an Aussies manufacturer's 1968 guitar,
It is one of the Byrd series they made.

I have already built one copy that I drew out by hand from an A4 sized pamphlet. That build was pretty damn good for what was a freehand drawing.

Well a few months back an original one of these guitars was sold on eBay. I managed to talk the owner into doing a trace of the body(see pic below). Well I've finally got hold of the trace and am currently building an inventory of bit.
I've got the tracing, and am about to make a template. I've also got the Blank, all be it a 3 piece Basswood blank.
The original was made from Mahogany, but thanks to IBM I just could not spring for a mahogany blank.
The neck is on order from my favouire Chinese ebay supplier(superistore). this is a Maple neck witha maple fretboard, and MOP dot fret markers. The headstock is a paddle style, but in the Fender layout, not scarf jointed

The pickups(hopefully) will be gretsch style Humbuckers with the H cutout, while this is disimilar to the OEM, It isn't my intention to make a direct copy. If I wanted to do that I'd spend $1000 and buy one complete from eastwoods.

The escence of this build is the shape of the guitar, not the electrics, which in the originals was a little thin ans sharp.

I have deliberately not named the specific model of this guitar, but those who know it will openly smile at what I am about to do.


Cheers Paul Kelly
Melbourne

Oh, I did own the OEM Build number 27(serial 127) of the original series 1 of these under rated guitars.

[dave.king1]

If the model starts with a F the lead player in one of my very early bands had one, he remembers it fondly

[dingobass]

Nice one PK.
Will be following this build with great interest

[dave.king1]

While we are on the subject of recreations and restorations does anyone know where I can get a couple of Maton L202 pickups or close lookalikes

[kells80aus]

If the model starts with a F the lead player in one of my very early bands had one, he remembers it fondly

Hi Dave

it's not the 'F' model from the Byrd series. that would have been the Fyrbyrd, it was the other one, and the bass Byrd being the Ibis, and It's not that one either, although I did think to build this as a bass, but felt it was just a bit to hard to do the neck for it. I think there were about a dozen Basses built compared to the 100 6 string guitars.
This is my fave the 'W'.

I don't know where you will get original pickups for your Lute from other than paying Maton a couple of Megabucks to make one for you. I have read of people getting Maton pups made up,
Best bet would be to contact them direct
MATON GUITARS
http://maton.com.au/

6 Clarice Rd, Box Hill
Victoria, Australia, 3128

Telephone: +61 3 9896 9500
Fax: +61 3 9896 9501

Cheers PK

[dave.king1]

Thanks PK, I've contacted Maton in the past to try and find out what the neck finish is and sadly it wasn't a hugely successful exercise probably because my mind was elsewhere trying to get a massive project over the line before I retired.

I'll give them another go and report back.

Edited to add: Looking at the tracing I am now thinking I have the right brand but the model name starts with a W ( one of the rarest of the breed )

[kells80aus]

Thanks PK, I've contacted Maton in the past to try and find out what the neck finish is and sadly it wasn't a hugely successful exercise probably because my mind was elsewhere trying to get a massive project over the line before I retired.

I'll give them another go and report back.

Edited to add: Looking at the tracing I am now thinking I have the right brand but the model name starts with a W ( one of the rarest of the breed )

I'd say you're right on the money with the 'W' model.

Cheers PK

[wokkaboy]

good to see you back on the forum PK, sounds like a cool build you are planning. Good luck

[kells80aus]

good to see you back on the forum PK, sounds like a cool build you are planning. Good luck

Tks Woks the hardest part of the build will be getting the headstock right as it's not simple six in line of 3L 3R, well it is 3L 3R but the 3R the tuners are basically acoustic style through a slot.
First problem is getting a suitable headstock template made up. I don't have a tracing for that part, so might have to beg someone who has one for some measurements.
Second problem will be sourcing the right tuners


Cheers PK

[wokkaboy]

well as you say PK you are in no hurry so sure you will source the tuners and dimensions of the headstock

[kells80aus]

Not a problem at Woks. might take a little lateral thought. AAnd who wouldn't to build one of these.
Oh and yeah I am a ZZ-top fan

[kells80aus]

Well, the neck has arrived. Headstock is too thin to put the slot in so will still go with the overall shape but standard 3 a side tuners.

The headstock is 15mm wide, probably need a few more mm to be able to so a slotted headstock.

Cheers PK

[wokkaboy]

thats a huge paddle headstock PK. What you need to find out of the treble side of the HS needs to be thicker to side mount the tuners, or if the whole HS is say about 16-18mm thick whether the bass side needs longer tuners for the extra width. Is it possible to glue a wedge shape so the treble side is thicker for the side mount tuners ? Find out how wide a Kluson type tuner is.
If Billy Gibbons plays this axe it's ultra cool

[kells80aus]

thats a huge paddle headstock PK. What you need to find out of the treble side of the HS needs to be thicker to side mount the tuners, or if the whole HS is say about 16-18mm thick whether the bass side needs longer tuners for the extra width. Is it possible to glue a wedge shape so the treble side is thicker for the side mount tuners ? Find out how wide a Kluson type tuner is.
If Billy Gibbons plays this axe it's ultra cool

Hi Woks,

the headstock is 15mm thick. But I am pretty sure the one I had back in 1960 didn't have a thick headstock. so maybe a bit of head scratching and measuring. The biggest concer is drilling a hole for the shaft. a 10mm hole only leaves 2.5mm each side, an 8mm hole gains 1mm soa 3.5mm clearance. Not sure that would be enough. Probably should have gotten DB to make the neck :D

The 'Satan' that Billy owns was made by Cole-Clarke, it does have a thicker headstock on the trebbel side.

Cheers PK

PK

[wokkaboy]

PK I think the only way to drill 10mm holes through the treble side is to have a thicker HS on the treble side. The chance of drilling through the sides are too high. I reckon a wedged shaped HS would be cool.
There may be a rectangular shape tuner that has a narrower shaft but worth doing research before you proceed

[kells80aus]

Hi Woks,

I have a pic of an original, the original headstocks were only 15-16mm they used open accoustic style tuners. mind the pic is of a bad restoration by some one with a can of spray paint. these tuners are only about 5mm(1/4in) dia, so would do the job. I do have a set, unfortunatley I need to file a mm off each side.

PK

[wokkaboy]

so PK if you can find the right tuners you shouldn't need any wedges or mods to the headstock thickness.
Agree not a very flat finish on the headstock face !

[dave.king1]

G'day PK,

If you have a look on google images you will see the Maton W has two different head stocks, the Satan stock and one that looks like a Strat headstock

[Gavin1393]

Tks Woks the hardest part of the build will be getting the headstock right as it's not simple six in line of 3L 3R, well it is 3L 3R but the 3R the tuners are basically acoustic style through a slot.
First problem is getting a suitable headstock template made up. I don't have a tracing for that part, so might have to beg someone who has one for some measurements.
Second problem will be sourcing the right tuners


As mentioned Maton made one too.
The headstock has to be thicker on the treble side to accommodate the tuners. This can be accomplished by using a veneer on both sides of your head stock.

[kells80aus]

As mentioned Maton made one too.
The headstock has to be thicker on the treble side to accommodate the tuners. This can be accomplished by using a veneer on both sides of your head stock.

Hi Gav,
I think that Fender headstock was a replacement. The thicker headstocks seem to have appeard on the series11 Wedgtail. I am damn sure my series 1 had a thin flat headstock. In any case I am probably going to struggle with this neck as it measures at around 14.5 - 15mm so may be just a touch too thin. Best I have been able to find so far has been 16mm tuners. Nickel plated from Tiawan $25 + $8 postage.

I did have a look at some maple Headstock Veneers but at 2-3 mm thick I thought they may be an issue for the tuner mounting screws, but I was thinking Klusons at that point. a 2-3 mm veneer would work with the nickel acoustic tuners.

Cheers PK

[Rabbitz]

I am confused.

If you look at the original Maton brochure for this style of guitar:

http://matonmuseum.com.au/data/pdfs/Wedgtail%20&%20Fyrbyrd%2070.pdf

It talks about a "Double Thrust" truss rod (very '60's marketing right there). Does this mean you adjusted it from both ends, and that it was designed to distort (bow) in length?

Also, what is the bit sticking out at the back of the truss rod drawing?

[Rabbitz]

Hey Paul,

Just a thought, and a not fully thought through one at that, but are you going to do a solid colour on the headstock?

If so could you do a fibreglass/resin layer as a reinforcement to get you the extra thickness you need? A couple of mm should be doable and "hide-able".

[kells80aus]

I am confused.

If you look at the original Maton brochure for this style of guitar:

http://matonmuseum.com.au/data/pdfs/Wedgtail%20&%20Fyrbyrd%2070.pdf.


It talks about a "Double Thrust" truss rod (very '60's marketing right there). Does this mean you adjusted it from both ends, and that it was designed to distort (bow) in length?

Also, what is the bit sticking out at the back of the truss rod drawing?

Hi Rabbitz,
I think they called it a double thrust truss rod as it seems to bend in two places. For some reason they have drawn it on an acoustic neck with a big heal.
I probably will be using solid colours on it the body blank is a three part basswood blank. So if I do that I may as well put a piece of laminated Maple on the headstock.

Cheers PK

[Rabbitz]

Where does one source basswood from?

I've been looking but no luck.

[kells80aus]

Hi Rabbitz,

I got this bit from 'Guitar Makers Emporium' in Maleny Qld. it was on ebay reduced to $60 so I bought it. He did say he had some Mahogany but it was $115 and 2-3 glues pieces. I've built some stylised Wedgtails out of mahogany, and they weigh an absolute ton.
The idea of using Basswood is to reduce weight.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Guitar-Body-Blank-Basswood-std-/252109521953?hash=item3ab2e60421

I've had a minor win on getting a headstock template, I leached a jpg copy of a tech drawing off the Net, and have shrunk it on the copier to get the right size.

Cheers PK

[Gavin1393]

From building my accoustics I know I have to put a veneer on the headstock otherwise the tuner plartes would stick out above the surface of the standard sized neck...this is also to create additional strength in the headstock.

[kells80aus]

From building my accoustics I know I have to put a veneer on the headstock otherwise the tuner plartes would stick out above the surface of the standard sized neck...this is also to create additional strength in the headstock.

Tks Gav, I've bought some maple headstock veneers, so I'll see how they turn up.
Meanwhile today I started on the Templete.
First I created a paper tracing, now I have traced that onto a sheet of patchwork plastic. this stuff is about .75mm thick and comes in an A3 sheet size, so it takes two sheets to make a the first level tracing. I do this as it creates a nice solid template to work from. Much better than trying to draw around a piece of paper.
Next I will make an MDF template of the body shape. I usually make up three. 1, overall body shape, 2. with the pick ups and neck slots, 3. is the rear route.
These guitars have a monster control cavity as they need to join up the 3 pos switch to the pickups and controls.

Somthing very intersting with this shape is most of the curves fit nicely to my French curve.

[kells80aus]

Ok here are the pics.

[dave.king1]

Somthing very intersting with this shape is most of the curves fit nicely to my French curve.

The French curve has a lot to answer for in many 60s designs

[dingobass]

The French curve has a lot to answer for in many 60s designs

Paisley springs to mind....

I like where this is going PK, keep up the good work.

[kells80aus]

Tks Db.

I love it when suppliers put dimensions on their product add, like this set of tuners. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/271355158249

Cheers PK

[kells80aus]

Headstock template underway

PK

[kells80aus]

I hate band saws.

My one handed woodwork teacher told me they were dangerous, 45 years ago.

Nothings changed still hate em but they serve a purpose.

Headstock template started, just a little sanding and filing to go

PK

[stan]

lots of work here , nice job PK

[kells80aus]

lots of work here , nice job PK

you're right Stan, took me an hour to adjust this little Band saw. Had to watch a Youtube vid on how to do it. I could probably get a little more out of it as the saw blade is still a little bendy.

Lots of work in this headstock. I need to wait till the tuners turn up. I bought a couple of sets, so if I have to I can take em appart and turn 12 into 6. I wanted chrome buttons, but also need long tuner shafts, so need to improvise a little

I'l try and find time to head off to the Wyndham Mens shed to cut out and thickness the body blank
They have a bigger band saw. I'll be telling them no closer than 3mm to the salvage side of the lines.
I'll get it planed down to 36-37 mm.
the original was 35mm But I firmly believe that is too thin and sacrafices too much body tone, to achieve a thin-line body.

Cheers PK

[dingobass]

I hate band saws.

My one handed woodwork teacher told me they were dangerous, 45 years ago.

Nothings changed still hate em but they serve a purpose.

Headstock template started, just a little sanding and filing to go

PK

It's a good thing to be scared of power tools.
Met plenty of guys minus fingers that were gung ho with them.....

[GeneralKaos]

What the heck, you got 9 more.......

[keloooe]

Yeah but then it really throws out your playing technique though if you ARE an instrument player.... If I lost anything except for the last two fingers on my right hand I'd be devastated

[Gavin1393]

What the heck, you got 9 more.......

I count only 7 fingers on your Avatar GK!!

[kells80aus]

Moving along a little. No one in the wall at Bathurst, apart from the girls.
Rough cut the body template. Headstock pretty much done. maybe just a little more trimming down.


Cheers PK

[jarrod]

Looking pretty dam cool bro. Take it from someone who spent last christmas in hospital getting his thumb rebuilt after putting a hand router through it. 4 dam days in the sick house.

[kells80aus]

Looking pretty dam cool bro. Take it from someone who spent last christmas in hospital getting his thumb rebuilt after putting a hand router through it. 4 dam days in the sick house.

That would be a major ouch Jarrod. Worst I've done is put a 1mm offcut blade through my thumb nail, well that and just snagging the groin area of my jeans with an electric plane, that one was very close toa asqueaky voice.
Hope your thumb has come good.

Cheers PL