Glued neck in. big problems

[Aidan7250]

Hi, i just glued the neck in, all the notes cut out from the 5th upwards. i have tryed the truss rod, no use. any ideas?

[stan]

Hi Aidan.
What method did you use, how did you do it?
What type of kit?
Can you post some pics, they always help

[Aidan7250]

I dont know how i tryed and it wouldnt let me post pictures. Haha, i have an EX-1 i just clamped it down with titebond glue

[keloooe]

Hi Aiden, maybe the frets are not flat. Try making a small tool that allows you to check the frets, three at a time, like this tool here: http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Straightedges/Fret_Rocker.html

Also make sure the bridge is not too low, pics always help too!

[wokkaboy]

Hi Aiden we need more information and photo would help. Have you tried raising the bridge saddles ?
If the neck wasn't seated properly when you glued it, it may be sitting a little too high hence strings bottoming out on the higher frets.
Has the nut been changed could be too low ?

[wokkaboy]

Hi Aiden, resize the pictures to 97kb or less and they should upload.
Also the truss rod may need more relief, the neck may have too much back bow.
Don't muck around with the truss rod too much unless you have a bit of experience. Don't force the allen key or you may snap the truss rod

[Aidan7250]

Nut hasent been changed getting pics ready

[Aidan7250]

I do have a little experience, not a pro ;) at setting up my guitars :)

[Aidan7250]

http://imgur.com/tpm3g4O
http://imgur.com/0uLQZKB
http://imgur.com/Qc2HsNR

[wokkaboy]

hard to tell from the pics Aiden. The string action looks quite high above 12th fret. Then the bridge looks set quite low.
The neck should have a rake so the nut angles down from the body by a few degrees, does it have a rake angle ?

[stan]

added some IMG tags, here are the pics:


http://imgur.com/Qc2HsNR.jpg

http://imgur.com/0uLQZKB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tpm3g4O.jpg

[Aidan7250]

I dont know, please someone help :(

[stan]

also some general shots that show most of the guitar in one shot from the top and the side and either end.

just put up your imgur tags again and I'll turn them into linked pics again

[Aidan7250]

http://imgur.com/y0t7uBy
http://imgur.com/ElbCt31
http://imgur.com/n8J2otI
http://imgur.com/YP3ltMY

[bargeloobs]

So when you drop the bridge down to a more reasonable action you're saying the strings bottom out on about the 5th?
It's might just be a camera trick but it looks to me like you've got quite a front bow in the neck.

[Aidan7250]

Its not a front bow, its at what i like it, i have it at .20 mm on a feeler gauge but i tryed higher and the only way is to have the bridge insanely high for no bottom out.

[wokkaboy]

still a bit hard to see Aiden, but looks like the neck has too much relief ie it's bowing forward. Try and loosen the truss rod a bit so facing the socket lefty = loosey or anti clockwise.
Most of the pics the string action looks high at 22nd fret so try lowering the bridge a little.
Hard to see but you haven't put a shim in the neck pocket have you ? hard to see with the black paint.
The neck will take a few weeks to set in so be patient.
Did you attempt a fret level ?

[bargeloobs]

What's at .20 on a feeler gauge? Where did you take the .20 measurement? If your necks not straight that doesn't really mean much.

[stan]

http://imgur.com/y0t7uBy.jpg

http://imgur.com/ElbCt31.jpg

http://imgur.com/n8J2otI.jpg

http://imgur.com/YP3ltMY.jpg

[stan]

I see the problem: tidy your room!

[stan]

just so i understand:
if you were to fret a note, at say the third fret, the string would bottom out on one of the higher frets and not sound the note?

[bargeloobs]

I see the problem: tidy your room!
Nice spottin' Stan;-)

[Aidan7250]

didnt attempt fret level they are level i checked, the bridge is already for for the neck cause it bottoms out :') i measured at the 7th and 9th fret guys and no shim. i thought it would be good to just smack in their

[Aidan7250]

hey shhh my room is clean as ;)

[Aidan7250]

and yep anywere from the 7th - 5th up bottoms out. untill i raise the bridge a f*** ton

[bargeloobs]

didnt attempt fret level they are level i checked
How did you come to the conclusion that the frets are level? What process did you go through to determine that your neck is dead straight?

[Aidan7250]

made a leveler that i wiggle over 3 frets at a time to see if any were not level and they were level.

[stan]

it would be my guess that it is a neck angle problem.
This is assuming that the neck is not bowed, the frets are level, the nut has no issues.

if you run a straight edge along the length of the neck starting at the first fret, down the middle of the neck, where does it contact the bridge?
It should be just on the bridge saddles.

If it goes above the saddles by much, you neck angle is too much, and I think this may be the issue - your stings would bottom out on higher frets.

You could use a steel ruler on edge, or a decent spirit level to check, string would be off or out of the way

[bargeloobs]

Shit I dunno brother, if your necks straight and your frets are level it must be something else. Maybe your strings are crooked.

[stan]

since the bridge is adjustable, start by using the straight edge and adjusting the bridge height so it just touches....

this is what you are after, also another way to check all frets are level:

http://www.co-bw.com/Images_Audio/neckangl.jpg

[Aidan7250]

i used a steel ruler, it just slid over the top of the bridge.

[bargeloobs]

i used a steel ruler, it just slid over the top of the bridge.

Maybe take some photos of the fretboard with the steel ruler running along all the frets.

[stan]

seems correct then I guess...

Either that or the neck angle is too great and the bridge is set too high

awaiting input from DB or Gavmeister....

[stan]

Maybe take some photos of the fretboard with the steel ruler running along all the frets.

Yes! good plan. it all helps

[keloooe]

Yes, room needs a clean (don't worry, nobody noticed it on my bass video :D). We need more photos Aiden, this is really confusing as by what you are saying it should be fine!
How did you make sure the neck was dead straight BEFORE checking the fret heights? If the neck was not dead straight beforehand it can affect how level the frets are.

[stan]

yes we did Callum...

[mredsharp]

If the neck is dead straight and the frets are level, its a nut issue.

How have you check the neck and frets? Just by eye or something?

[andrewdosborne]

A picture of the nut would assist. On my LP-JR the stock nut came so high it was comical


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[adam]

What city are you in Aidan? Maybe we can get one of our resident experts to have a look at the guitar.

[dingobass]

Looking at the pics it looks like your neck has a front bow, but that could be my eyes..... Spent the last ten minutes trying to find my glasses so I can see properly.....

Go through the suggestions mentioned, you may find the problem..

[stan]

What city are you in Aidan? Maybe we can get one of our resident experts to have a look at the guitar.

his sig says Launceston, Tassie. Trying to remember if we have any other Tassie forumites that could help....

[wokkaboy]

I can't think of any other forumites in Tassy.
Aiden have you got any guitar playing friends that can have a look ?
Otherwise have a play around with some of the suggestions and check if the nut height is too high.
I checked my EX build lastnight and the neck doesn't have a break angle like SG's and LP's do so the neck should be parallel with the body

[Aidan7250]

Just getting the photos ready now, in the first one you can see the nut is really good.

[Aidan7250]

http://imgur.com/BVJwSuv
http://imgur.com/pcCdfCO
http://imgur.com/6jA3SlM
http://imgur.com/bdC6NGJ
http://imgur.com/i6nS2tY

[wokkaboy]

Hi Aiden,
the action looks a bit higher in the 31-37cm photo than the nut photo and the photo near the 22nd fret, which would suggest the neck has relief or forward bow.
I'd have a play again with the truss rod and try and get the action consistent over the whole fingerboard.

It is hard to see as each photo is more than likely taken from a slightly different angle which is no fault of yours.

Also play with the bridge height to try and stop the strings bottoming out around 22nd fret

[Aidan7250]

the only way for no bottom out is to have the string height insanely high and the truss rod tightened... that's why the neck is bent a lot sorry, i can straighten it and take more photo's but the strings will bottom out even further down the neck so i really see no point.

[bargeloobs]

It's very hard to tell what's going on in any of those pictures because 1 - the strings are obscuring the ruler and 2 - you can only see a small section of the fretboard.
How long in your straight edge? You need one long enough to run along the entire length of the fretboard, that way you can eyeball whether there is any gaps between the ruler and the frets and determining what sort of bend you have in the neck.
An even better way is to use a notched straight edge, which will sit directly on the fingerboard and give you an even more accurate reading.

[Aidan7250]

it 1 meter long its fine.

[bargeloobs]

the only way for no bottom out is to have the string height insanely high and the truss rod tightened... that's why the neck is bent a lot sorry, i can straighten it and take more photo's but the strings will bottom out even further down the neck so i really see no point.

Yeah but having a huge front bow in your neck isn't actually fixing anything is it? All you're doing is creating action so high the instrument becomes unplayable. You need to get the neck straight, then you need to level the frets.
After that you can come back and moan about strings bottoming out.

[wokkaboy]

yes Barge is correct.
Aiden if you say the truss rod is tightened I assume you mean righty tighty or clockwise facing it.
These truss rods are dual action so turn the allen key left (lefty loosey) or anti clockwise facing it.
Don't force it or it will snap ! Best back off the string tension when you adjust the truss rod.
The neck needs to be straight under string tension to have the best playability.

[Aidan7250]

righto, loosen the truss rod back to straight, did the steel ruler thingo again and its perfectly aligned right down the neck on the bridge, i will put the strings back on and tell you if it works again. and i am adding new photos

[bargeloobs]

Just remember, sitting a straight edge on the frets isn't always a sign of "perfect alignment" either if the frets are not level, hence the reason a notched straight edge is used.

[Aidan7250]

I checked the fret level by putting a straight edge across 3 frets at a time and wiggled it to see if any were not level, their all level.

[Aidan7250]

Pictures. http://imgur.com/a/8QX8S

[Aidan7250]

Haha sorry their out of order.

[pablopepper]

Well, you can't accurately check if the frets are level with a one metre rule. You need a fret rocker like this
http://www.elmerguitar.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/r/fret-rocker-02.jpg
or something similar that will only touch three frets at a time.
Second thing is getting the neck perfectly straight ain't going to fix anything instantly (it's not a bad starting point though), you need a small amount of relief (front bow). Setting up a guitar is a series of steps which need to happen in sequence.

Read through Gavin's setup guide and go step by step and you should end up in a satisfactory place.
http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=1782
If not, then come back and let us know. :)

[stan]

That setup link is a great one Aidan, as Pabs said, go through the process and then see how it goes, good luck

[keloooe]

Can't go wrong with Gav's article!

[Aidan7250]

I already told you i have a metal straight edge i wiggled across 3 frets at a time!!!

[bargeloobs]

Sounds to me like you already know what you're doing and have quite an in depth knowledge in regards to guitar setup. Not quite sure why you're asking for help:P

[Aidan7250]

It's not working, read the original post. i dont know whats wrong all the parts are installed correctly, neck angle is great so is the fret, is the neck warped or twisted?????

[bargeloobs]

Are you saying I didn't read the original post mate? I've been patient I'd tried to help you bro. You've been given all the tools needed to work through your issue by some of the best people on the forum.
The mere fact that you would intentionally add a ridiculous amount of relief to your neck just to achieve string clearance demonstrates you know exactly zero about setting up a guitar.
It's kinda hard to help someone who already knows everything, good luck with that.

[dingobass]

Hmmmmm... Bit of a brain bender..

If the neck is twisted you would see it by sighting along the neck but I dont think thats the problem.
Grab a 600mm steel rule from the $2 shop and notch it to correspond with the frets, this will let you check the overall straightness of the neck.

Pretty sure from looking at the pics and your description that your neck has a forward bow.

[Aidan7250]

what do you mean by a front bow? do you mean like the neck is screwed or is that my fault?

[dingobass]

Not your fault at all, if the neck has a front bow all you need to do is loosen the strings and tighten the truss rod.

Usually if you tighten it so it has a 2-3mm back bow, when you tune the Guitar the string tension should pull the neck close to dead flat.
Might take a few goes to get it right, but with the aid of your straight edge you should get it sorted

[Aidan7250]

nah its not working mate all it dose it cut out at the 12th up. with all the help you guys have given me about the nut and the neck i checked it all over more than 10 times, its like its a neck fault or something. i dunno i'm really sick of it to tell you the true, its not your fault. no need to be rude barge.:mad:

[kimball492]

Here you go Aidan make yourself one of these out of a 600 mm stainless rule as DB suggested. Sometimes building guitars can be frustrating , but you'll learn so much from this ready for any future builds . See pic attached

[Aidan7250]

Sorry but my dad wont let me get a ruler, he thinks ive spent too much money on this already

[kimball492]

You already have a ruler straight edge just notch it as per pic

[wokkaboy]

Aiden if you have tried everything we have suggested and still have no luck I'd take it to a guitar tech to look at. Might cost a few bucks but they should be able to tell you the problem.
Doubt the neck is twisted

[stan]

Bargy, I think Aidan is a young guy and what goes down on the keyboard, doesn't describe the tone or intent. I don't think he is being a smarty pants, just young and frustrated that he can work out his issue.

Aidan , try not to get too frustrated mate. Something in the setup has to be wrong or you wouldn't have this issue. Your disadvantage is that we don't have a forum member close to you who can physically look at your guitar and help.

The advice to take it to an expert is a good one.

try this: take it to a local music shop that sells lots of guitars. Show it to someone there and get an opinion.
Listen carefully to what they say.
They might say stuff about it being a kit and put it down. Don't worry about that (you've seen on the forum how good kits can be). Listen to the technical bits and tell us here what was said.
Listening to advice costs no money and you can take it or leave it.
Hopefully from there we can help you out.

Also, truss rods adjustments are SMALL. like a quarter turn small. A little bit can change a lot. Go small and check often. Let the guitar settle between adjustments for a few minutes minimum.

What ever it is can be fixed, get back to us.