PDA

View Full Version : PK's Acoustic Epi brace repair



kells80aus
27-02-2015, 11:13 AM
I'll start this by expressing my extreme disatisfaction with the guy I bought this Epi off.
I paid $148 on ebay for a very nice acoustic Epi.
The guy that sold it to me should never ever go anywhere near a guitar EVER.
This guy refused to let me come pick it up. He Posted it to me. He wrapped it in a Black plastic bag and then wrapped it in corflute cardboard.
The end result is some internal damage to the braces that meet in the middle under the bridge.
At first I thought it was only one brace but on inspection today it was far far worse.
Firstly, the rear upper cross brace was split down the middle. I currenlty have this glued and drying.
Not sure if I got enough glue under it or not.
The second damaged area was the forward brace on the same side(the top edge). this brace had deglued and taken about four square inches of the first two layers of laminate off. I have no idea how I can fix this without spreading glue all over the place.
then I have to glue the brace back down.
I am thinking that little repair has to go to some one who actually knows what they are doing.

To give you an idea of how hard this is the following YouTube is of a regluing upper braces.
The guy prattles on about crap, but you get the idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn216Lqjs8U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1_5m7UuqC0

I'll try get a couple of pics if I can find a camera to fit.

PK

wokkaboy
27-02-2015, 11:17 AM
wow thats bad news PK, bummer. Well its a lesson not to buy acoustics that are badly packaged for posting. They are delicate and really need to be in a case.
Stick at it, you never know you may be able to repair it, main thing is it plays ok, how it looks isn't as important

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 11:23 AM
Not happy Jan.....

If you zoom into the edge of the guitar you will see some cracking around the edge.
the second shot is the deck internal damage, the third is the brace I glued... just hope it sticks.

PK

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 11:28 AM
Just realised this delamination is right next to the pre-amp, so may have a second window to get through to repair it.

Like most things, it just takes a careful bit of thought.

PK

stan
27-02-2015, 11:36 AM
maybe you should bring it to Stan's House of Epi Repair...

Does the internal damage show through to the top?

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 11:50 AM
absolutely Blind Luck.

The pre-amp hole is right over the fracture spot.

I'm seriously thinking this could use a bit of surboard technolgy.
A little piece of four ounce woven glass and little bit of resin.

BUT I'll try normal glueing first.

I'd like to here if DB has any guidance for this as well.

PK

stan
27-02-2015, 12:13 PM
could you get the head of an Irwin type clamp in there?

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 12:23 PM
Hi Stan,
There is a crack right along the upper edge of the deck, about 100-130mm long. It just shows as a crack in the gloss finish(something else to fix)
I probably could get a clamp in. I was thinking it is going to need a little bit of reinforcment of some kind.

I'm just no quite sure what to use.
While fiberglass would be thin and strong, the resin is likely to seep through the crack.
So it will have to be some form of wood, that is glued in with Tite bond so it can be easily cleaned up.
All I have is some 3 mm sapelle, and some half mm maple.
The maple could be layered a few times to create a patch.

Definitely worth a trip to Stan's Epi repair centre

PK

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 12:34 PM
Stan,
I'd have to pack the Irwin clamp up a bit, as the pre-amp hole is about 30mm deep.

PK

bargeloobs
27-02-2015, 12:34 PM
I'll start this by expressing my extreme disatisfaction with the guy I bought this Epi off.
I paid $148 on ebay for a very nice acoustic Epi.
The guy that sold it to me should never ever go anywhere near a guitar EVER.
This guy refused to let me come pick it up. He Posted it to me. He wrapped it in a Black plastic bag and then wrapped it in corflute cardboard.

PK

What a nob!

stan
27-02-2015, 12:36 PM
my guess it was posted to cover that fact that it was damaged, way easier to let someone come and get it versus the hassle of posting a guitar

bargeloobs
27-02-2015, 12:38 PM
my guess it was posted to cover that fact that it was damaged, way easier to let someone come and get it versus the hassle of posting a guitar

Yeah not too hard to go for a drive and query the idiot over it face to face though, that shit makes me wild.

stan
27-02-2015, 12:42 PM
Yeah not too hard to go for a drive and query the idiot over it face to face though, that shit makes me wild.

I doubt it would be worth the trouble, he would deny it and what proof have you other than he is a first class douche...

stan
27-02-2015, 12:44 PM
Stan,
I'd have to pack the Irwin clamp up a bit, as the pre-amp hole is about 30mm deep.

PK

I think if you could get one in there that you could glue it up well enough to at least stabilise the damaged area

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 12:45 PM
I have two thoughts about the sale of this Guitar.
well maybe 3 if you consider he tried to learn guitar and failed.
The two I have in mind is this is a Hot Guitar, hence the lack of care in shipping,
Or he got kicked out of home and wasn't living in Geelong anymore and needed some money fast.
These epis are usually about $400 new so he got a good price for it had he not been a NOB and posted it.

PK

bargeloobs
27-02-2015, 12:45 PM
I doubt it would be worth the trouble, he would deny it and what proof have you other than he is a first class douche...

True that..

stan
27-02-2015, 12:48 PM
i think a thin patch would suffice if you could get enough even pressure on it.

I think if you bulk it up too much, you may create a dead area in the sound board and lose tone...

If the crack goes all the way through then you really need to glue it and clamp across the guitar as well to close it

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 12:54 PM
I would have bought it damaged or not. the total cost was $128 for the guitar, and $20 postage.
The damage while it is a pain is fixable. Getting my chubby little hands inside it is a strugle, they don't seem to articulate as well as they did years ago. I couldn't Imagine AJ trying to get his hands inside an acoustic, he's twice my size. :D
I will work through this and it will be a nice guitar to play with.
As it is I have already spent plenty of time over teh last few weeks sitting on the couch picking and strumming away.
It's only been today that I have had enough spare time to take a look inside. I've bought 3 Stewmac brace jacks, made a mirror, bought a light and camera, both of which are almost a fail as they are too small to get setup in the right place, and as soon as you stick you hand inside the guitar everything moves around.
Glueing backwards with a pipette is a bit of fun. hence I still dunno if I got enough glue in the split.
Next time I'll find a wedge to keep it open a bit further(things you find on Stemacs YouTube)

PK

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 12:56 PM
Stan, if you look closely at the first pic the crack is just inside the upper edge.
pretty much along the edge of the binding


PK

stan
27-02-2015, 12:59 PM
i actually think if you could push the crack inside back together right then you wouldn't have to patch it at all

Dale Erwine from Stewmac has some good vids for sure

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 01:01 PM
There seems to be a chunk of laminate missing, so I think it will need something over this area... NOT timber-mate.. LOL

The missing piece of laminate makes me think this is prior damage.

wokkaboy
27-02-2015, 01:15 PM
sounds like the seller was selling a fairly damaged axe thats why he didn't want you to see it and the seller in person. Think you're right PK most of the damage was done before it was posted.
oh well lesson learned not to buy a guitar not seeing it in the flesh.
Get in touch with moderator Gavmeister he would have the best idea how to repair the damage. He has built and repaired many beautiful acoustics

bargeloobs
27-02-2015, 01:35 PM
oh well lesson learned not to buy a guitar not seeing it in the flesh.


I dunno if this is particularly fair, I've bought many guitars online going only by the sellers description and (touch wood) haven't had a problem yet. Admittedly there's a great deal of faith and trust put into online sellers, unfortunately it's dickheads like this that kinda ruin it for the honest blokes.

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 02:09 PM
What the guy fails to realise Is I know his name and thanks to White pages I know his address.
Mr C. J--- lives in Hearne Hill I even know his phone Number.

Buying anything off Ebay is a risk. So far I've only been stung a couple of times out of hundreds of purchases.

PK

wokkaboy
27-02-2015, 02:19 PM
why don't you call him PK and ask for a refund and offer to drop it off to him. I'm sure he won't agree, so might as well try and repair it, it's a nice looking axe and worth trying to rescue

kells80aus
27-02-2015, 02:24 PM
Tks Wokks it is a beautiful guitar and has nice tone, even if I do have electric strings on it.

wokkaboy
27-02-2015, 02:30 PM
yeah its a keeper. Just keep at it and best get some advice, there must be some good acoustic repairers nearby ? worth the investment

dingobass
27-02-2015, 05:36 PM
Ouch!

Where is the Gavmiester when ya need him?

From what I can see, I would flood the area with titebond, cover it with a chunk of gladwrap and clamp it with a piece of timber to get it nice and flat.
When dry, again flood it with TB and use a piece of muslin cloth to act as a patch to hold everything in place.

Next I would report the idiot to fee bay, they may just ban him for selling goods not matching the description.
Also PayPal might have something to say about it too (assuming it was paid for through PeePal)

kimball492
27-02-2015, 09:09 PM
Kells ,Sorry to hear of your bad luck .Look put in complaint to paypal ref damage pre transit you'll be surprised they hold the money until it's sorted out Tell them that he refused to allow collection . Then it arrived broken. Bad feedback

kells80aus
28-02-2015, 03:06 AM
@DB @Kimball

The muslin idea sounds good. I was thinking I had to get plenty of Tite-bond under it. If I don't then it is likely to cause a bit of buzz.
I'll go out to the shed a bit later once the sun comes up and see if I can find some wooden block that will fit in for clamping.

I've had this a few weeks sitting in the music room, so that bitchin paypal/ebay horse has bolted.

PK

kells80aus
28-02-2015, 04:31 AM
Pretty much think I have everything I need.
clamp, little blocks of wood, glue. some cotton and polyester patches(the poly is actually stronger than the cotton)
wedges to hold the fracture open while I squeeze glue in from one of the pippettes.
little sealable container to put screw in so they don't get lost.
Tape for protecting the outside(green low tack tape)
StewMac spatula for pushing glue under the fracture.
Now just need it to stop raining.
First up I'll trail fit the clamp incase I need to get soem bigger/smaller/thicker blocks

PK

kells80aus
28-02-2015, 11:36 AM
After taking on board everyones advice,
I have swampped the area with glue,
glad wrapped the clamping block,
clamped the clamping blocks
and now waiting for it to dry,

next task will be tomorrow, glueing some cloth over the area

PK

kells80aus
01-03-2015, 06:36 AM
Glue down of the delamination has worked a treat.
Now I've applied the Andrews patch to the area missing bits of laminate.
I've used two pieces of cotton in a sea of glue.

In a couple of hours I'll put it all back together. with a new Set of D'Addario Phosphor/Bronze 10-47's
I always use light gauge strings, it's a touchy feely thing. :D

PK

stan
01-03-2015, 03:52 PM
that's a pretty nice fix Paul, it should do fine. You are now in the Epi fixers club!
You have 40 days with ppal last time I looked, try anyway. Ensure the feedback is not good...

kells80aus
01-03-2015, 04:29 PM
Tks Stan

I should stick the dental mirror in and have a look. I pressed the galdwrapped block in on top of the patch to try flatten it a little.
But over all it seems to be rock solid. the repaired brace is holding well even though I felt I didn't get enough glue into the crack.

I'm getting used to the Acoustic strings(10-47) they do have a louder bell sound to them than the set of 10-46 electric strings I had on her.

PK

stan
01-03-2015, 04:55 PM
it will be fine, good job. String her up and enjoy - and you learnt some stuff and repaired your own guitar - all good!

dingobass
01-03-2015, 09:51 PM
Nice work! :)
That repair should be stronger than the rest of the Guitar now.

kimball492
01-03-2015, 11:58 PM
Well done sit back Kells enjoy. How's she sound

kells80aus
02-03-2015, 03:52 AM
Tks Guys, she sounds as sweet as ever. Iam getting used to the acoustic strings. They have a heavier feel than the electric strings, The sound is much stronger. I am enjoying siting here playing Itchycoo Park. :)

Tell you what I'll do, I'd like to go there now with you. Won't that be cool "It's all too beautiful"

He he PK

stan
02-03-2015, 05:47 AM
great stuff, you have the DB seal of approval and joined the Epi repair club!

andrewdosborne
02-03-2015, 11:25 AM
Excellent repair job. Out of a negative - getting a broken guitar, you now have a positive - learned a repair skill and fixed it up :)

kells80aus
02-03-2015, 01:15 PM
Tks everyone for all your help and support with this repair job.



PK