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bargeloobs
15-02-2015, 08:35 AM
How do we achieve that "commercial" sounding mix?
How do we get a big wide, transparent sound with tonnes of headroom, where every instrument occupies it's own space within the stereo field and appears crystal clear?
How do we get sparkling highs, crisp mids and a clean powerful bottom end?

Many are questions I'm still yet to figure out.
Even though my mixes are night and day to what they were 15 years ago when I was recording on 8 track tape machines I still feel I have so much more to learn and I'm always keen to squeeze info out of others.

Personally, I feel EQ is one of the most powerful tools when it comes to mixing your tracks.
Get it wrong and you can quite easily destroy an otherwise reasonable recording, whereas subtle cuts and boost in just the right spots will work wonders on a mix.
Where these cuts and boosts occur however is the 64 million dollar question and totally dependent on many factors.

Here's two EQ tricks that I use every time I mix. One talks about mid/side processing and the others a quite detail description of using high pass filters.
Many of you would know and employ these techniques, others may not be so familiar with them.

If you've got any cool little tips that will help us achieve a better mix let's hear em'!!

http://www.benvesco.com/blog/mixing/2008/fx-tips-eq-high-pass-filter/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHTF-iKcJa8&safe=active

kells80aus
15-02-2015, 09:31 AM
Hi Barge,

While I am struggling to even comprehend a recording deck.
I'd like to add something I have always used in IT.
After nearly thirty years of working on real data where if you make an error you are in deep deep poosies.
I did ten years playing with welfare databases yes your everloving Dole payments, if there is one thing I learned it was always make a copy of your masterfile first.
If you do stuff up you can always recover back to your original.

PK

bargeloobs
15-02-2015, 09:43 AM
Hi Barge,

While I am struggling to even comprehend a recording deck.
I'd like to add something I have always used in IT.
After nearly thirty years of working on real data where if you make an error you are in deep deep poosies.
I did ten years playing with welfare databases yes your everloving Dole payments, if there is one thing I learned it was always make a copy of your masterfile first.
If you do stuff up you can always recover back to your original.

PK

Right on PK, such an important thing that it's easily overlooked sometimes. Save save and save again.
e.g -you just laid down the best solo of your life without a hope of ever replicating it, forgot to save after you'd finished and 5 minutes later you get a power cut... bye bye solo:-( ask me how I know this....

I've got doubles of 95% of my project files sitting on an external, just in case.

kimball492
16-02-2015, 05:29 AM
Hi Kells and Barge , backup is so important thank goodness for auto backup but still feel safe making manual backups . In Ref to mixing I sure you've heard of Pensado .i enjoy this guys show so varied how producers work .http://www.pensadosplace.tv

bargeloobs
17-02-2015, 07:31 AM
Hi Kells and Barge , backup is so important thank goodness for auto backup but still feel safe making manual backups . In Ref to mixing I sure you've heard of Pensado .i enjoy this guys show so varied how producers work .http://www.pensadosplace.tv

Dave's a cool guy, and an unbelievable engineer. There's so much stuff to learn on his site but the stark reality is you'll never emulate 90% of what he's doing unless you're willing (or have the means) to spend LOTS of money on expensive plugins and rack gear.

kimball492
17-02-2015, 10:48 AM
Barge even top producers send there tracks after mixing to a guy that masters there work before its ever put out to cd format. It's there a lot of the magic happens . Just had this in my email check it out and give it a go

When you slap a plugin on your mix, do you have a concrete reason? Is it really doing something for your tracks?

An engineer says “The XYZ Compressor is the smoothest sounding compressor I’ve ever heard. I love it!” So we blindly go out and buy XYZ Compressor, insert it into a track and just assume it’s making our mix sound smoother. Whatever that means.

Maybe it really is a great plugin. Maybe it’s not. How do you know?

Is there a way you can definitively discover if a plugin is a good fit for you and your music? Is there a way to make sure you’re using it in the best way possible?




Today I want to share a laughably simple 5 step process I use to get the absolute best out of my plugins. It’ll give you the clarity to say “Yes” or “No” to any plugin at any point, and the confidence to know each plugin you use is there for a reason.

Step #1 – Listen In Default Mode
The first thing you should do is simply listen to the plugin in default mode. I know it sounds obvious, but so often after inserting a plugin on a track we go hog wild and begin twisting knobs.

Resist the urge.

What we want to discover is what the plugin does for our tracks in the default setting, simply passing audio through.

Does it add some sweet harmonics? Does it thicken up the bottom end? Does it mellow out the top end? Does widen the stere image? Or does it do absolutely nothing? (Which isn’t a bad thing by the way).

Simply listen and methodically bypass the plugin (on and off) and take note of what you hear. There is much to learn about a plugin by hearing what it does to your audio all by itself.

Step #2 – Try Some Presets
On almost any plugin, trying a factory preset is an insightful exercise as it reveals what is possible with the plugin and what the manufacturer envisioned for its use.

Many times you will discover a preset that is an instant fit and become one of your go-to sounds. I have some favorite factory presets for example on one of my buss compressors. They simply work.

Most of the time you won’t get a perfectly useable preset, especially if it’s an EQ (almost pointless in my opinion) but you will still discover some cool things about the plugin. And knowledge is power.

Step #3 – Push Buttons
Did you know you can push buttons and tweak knobs on your plugin and nothing bad will happen?

I say this sarcastically because all too often I hear people being afraid to mess with their plugins – thinking they could somehow ruin the mix. News flash, you can undo anything you like in a DAW!

It’s wise to develop the healthy habit of fiddling when it comes to your plugins.

Grab each knob and crank it as far as it will go. What did that do? Take a mental note. Rinse and repeat for each knob.

This takes the concept of trying out presets to the next level. It allows you to know what is truly possible with your plugin.

Much of the extreme settings will not be useable, but knowing how far you can push things and what happens when you do, is critical to getting the most out of your gear.

Step #4 – Balance The Output Volume
Except for perhaps a limiter, the goal of any plugin is never to simply make the track louder.

This is an important point – when fiddling with a plugin (any plugin) if your settings add some gain to the track (which is invariably what happens) you will always think you are enhancing the sound. Humans think louder sounds better.

The key is to locate the output knob or fader and turn the signal back down to the original input volume. (Or if you made the track quieter with the plugin, like with compressors, then turn the output back up.)

This way, when you do Step #5 you can make an accurate assessment of whether the plugin is helping or hurting your track.

All too often we skip this step and love how each plugin adds a bit of “something” to our track, when in reality that “something” is called gain, and you don’t need a plugin to turn up your mix a few dB.

Step #5 – Bypass The Plugin
If you have matched the output volume of the plugin to that of the input, then Step #5 will actually work.

After playing around with the plugin and landing on some settings that sound good to you (and that’s what this is all about, isn’t it?) the final step is to simply playback the song and bypass the plugin. Turn it off and then on, and then off, etc.

All you’re doing at this point is listening to see how (and if) the plugin changes the sound of your track. Is it better? Worse? Or does it not make any real difference?

That last question is huge. I find myself adding plugins, tweaking sounds, matching the output level, and then bypassing the plugin all to find that I can’t tell a difference with the plugin on or off.

If that happens, major clue to simply get rid of the plugin. It’s literally pointless in your mix.

Putting Them All Together
Wow – those were pretty simple steps, right? But they are so important. And in real life all five of those steps flow together pretty quickly and fluidly.

Rob L
17-02-2015, 11:07 AM
Recording my own stuff is all new to me. I've always gone to a studio. Whether that be a full fledged studio with all the bells and whistles or my latest recordings which were recorded all on a PC in an engineers bedroom.
I've yet to be truly happy with any of it. It's either been dull and boring or severely over-produced. I actually have no clue how to even proceed with this but between some friends I have who do all their own recordings to what I have found on here I gonna make a go of it.
And with my lack of funds it could take months just to get the basic gear I need. And having to create so many instruments digitally is going to take time. It's much easier to have someone else at the controls.
Maybe I'll win the lottery and can pay someone. :D

bargeloobs
17-02-2015, 12:32 PM
Barge even top producers send there tracks after mixing to a guy that masters there work before its ever put out to cd format. It's there a lot of the magic happens . Just had this in my email check it out and give it a go

When you slap a plugin on your mix, do you have a concrete reason? Is it really doing something for your tracks?

An engineer says “The XYZ Compressor is the smoothest sounding compressor I’ve ever heard. I love it!” So we blindly go out and buy XYZ Compressor, insert it into a track and just assume it’s making our mix sound smoother. Whatever that means.

Maybe it really is a great plugin. Maybe it’s not. How do you know?

Is there a way you can definitively discover if a plugin is a good fit for you and your music? Is there a way to make sure you’re using it in the best way possible?




Today I want to share a laughably simple 5 step process I use to get the absolute best out of my plugins. It’ll give you the clarity to say “Yes” or “No” to any plugin at any point, and the confidence to know each plugin you use is there for a reason.

Step #1 – Listen In Default Mode
The first thing you should do is simply listen to the plugin in default mode. I know it sounds obvious, but so often after inserting a plugin on a track we go hog wild and begin twisting knobs.

Resist the urge.

What we want to discover is what the plugin does for our tracks in the default setting, simply passing audio through.

Does it add some sweet harmonics? Does it thicken up the bottom end? Does it mellow out the top end? Does widen the stere image? Or does it do absolutely nothing? (Which isn’t a bad thing by the way).

Simply listen and methodically bypass the plugin (on and off) and take note of what you hear. There is much to learn about a plugin by hearing what it does to your audio all by itself.

Step #2 – Try Some Presets
On almost any plugin, trying a factory preset is an insightful exercise as it reveals what is possible with the plugin and what the manufacturer envisioned for its use.

Many times you will discover a preset that is an instant fit and become one of your go-to sounds. I have some favorite factory presets for example on one of my buss compressors. They simply work.

Most of the time you won’t get a perfectly useable preset, especially if it’s an EQ (almost pointless in my opinion) but you will still discover some cool things about the plugin. And knowledge is power.

Step #3 – Push Buttons
Did you know you can push buttons and tweak knobs on your plugin and nothing bad will happen?

I say this sarcastically because all too often I hear people being afraid to mess with their plugins – thinking they could somehow ruin the mix. News flash, you can undo anything you like in a DAW!

It’s wise to develop the healthy habit of fiddling when it comes to your plugins.

Grab each knob and crank it as far as it will go. What did that do? Take a mental note. Rinse and repeat for each knob.

This takes the concept of trying out presets to the next level. It allows you to know what is truly possible with your plugin.

Much of the extreme settings will not be useable, but knowing how far you can push things and what happens when you do, is critical to getting the most out of your gear.

Step #4 – Balance The Output Volume
Except for perhaps a limiter, the goal of any plugin is never to simply make the track louder.

This is an important point – when fiddling with a plugin (any plugin) if your settings add some gain to the track (which is invariably what happens) you will always think you are enhancing the sound. Humans think louder sounds better.

The key is to locate the output knob or fader and turn the signal back down to the original input volume. (Or if you made the track quieter with the plugin, like with compressors, then turn the output back up.)

This way, when you do Step #5 you can make an accurate assessment of whether the plugin is helping or hurting your track.

All too often we skip this step and love how each plugin adds a bit of “something” to our track, when in reality that “something” is called gain, and you don’t need a plugin to turn up your mix a few dB.

Step #5 – Bypass The Plugin
If you have matched the output volume of the plugin to that of the input, then Step #5 will actually work.

After playing around with the plugin and landing on some settings that sound good to you (and that’s what this is all about, isn’t it?) the final step is to simply playback the song and bypass the plugin. Turn it off and then on, and then off, etc.

All you’re doing at this point is listening to see how (and if) the plugin changes the sound of your track. Is it better? Worse? Or does it not make any real difference?

That last question is huge. I find myself adding plugins, tweaking sounds, matching the output level, and then bypassing the plugin all to find that I can’t tell a difference with the plugin on or off.

If that happens, major clue to simply get rid of the plugin. It’s literally pointless in your mix.

Putting Them All Together
Wow – those were pretty simple steps, right? But they are so important. And in real life all five of those steps flow together pretty quickly and fluidly.

All goods points that make perfect sense but nothing really new (not to me anywho).
While I definitely agree that a lot of "magic' occurs at that mastering stage, mastering WON"T fix a rubbish mix.

bargeloobs
17-02-2015, 01:05 PM
The point I was driving at is while I'd love to have a crack at some of Pensado's mixing techniques and have no doubt that there would be benefits, the simple fact is that most of the tools he's using are just too expensive for a lot of people (me included).
At the end of the day the plugins he's using aren't just random bits of software he's road testing, these are tried and tested tools that he uses daily, they're his bread and butter, so there's no doubting they work or he wouldn't use them.
Some might say, get the demo and see what sort of results you get, but there's no way I'm downloading a demo version of a $250 plugin that I know I'll never be able to buy.
It's very similar to guitar building in that if you've got all the cool tools you can do anything, unfortunately all the cool toys cost shitloads:-(

lunaticthighs
18-02-2015, 05:12 PM
Like most things it's all about the tricks you know and I admit I Don't know a lot.
When recording I always aim for the cleanest take of any instrument I can and then play with the effects and eq later. I also tend to keep the raw original track and only eq and add fx to copies. For example I might make 3 copies of a guitar track, eq 1 so it's all bottom end. Eq 2 so it's all top and put some fx on the third then play with volume and pan envelopes to mix the 3 together and bring out the parts I want to be dominant at certain parts of the track.
Easy to do on most pc software nowadays, bit harder on the old 4 track I used to use (and still have lol)

bargeloobs
18-02-2015, 05:23 PM
Like most things it's all about the tricks you know and I admit I Don't know a lot.
When recording I always aim for the cleanest take of any instrument I can and then play with the effects and eq later. I also tend to keep the raw original track and only eq and add fx to copies. For example I might make 3 copies of a guitar track, eq 1 so it's all bottom end. Eq 2 so it's all top and put some fx on the third then play with volume and pan envelopes to mix the 3 together and bring out the parts I want to be dominant at certain parts of the track.
Easy to do on most pc software nowadays, bit harder on the old 4 track I used to use (and still have lol)

Yeah thank F#@k for computers alright, back in the days trying to bounce down a full rock band on to 4 tracks and in the end you just had a muddy mix that sounded like it was playing out of someones car stereo with the windows wound up.
Clean tracks are so important alright, if you can get the best takes at tracking it makes the whole job of mixing soooo much easier and means you're not trying to chase your tail polishing turds.

lunaticthighs
18-02-2015, 05:31 PM
Yeah thank F#@k for computers alright, back in the days trying to bounce down a full rock band on to 4 tracks and in the end you just had a muddy mix that sounded like it was playing out of someones car stereo with the windows wound up.
Clean tracks are so important alright, if you can get the best takes at tracking it makes the whole job of mixing soooo much easier and means you're not trying to chase your tail polishing turds.

still got some alright tracks from the old 4 track though, well good enough for radio airplay back in the day but then there wasn't so much competition lol.

also best tip I ever got was to listen to any recording on as many different systems as possible. Especially the car and an old shitty bop deck to pick up any issues before commiting it to the final mix.

bargeloobs
18-02-2015, 05:47 PM
still got some alright tracks from the old 4 track though, well good enough for radio airplay back in the day but then there wasn't so much competition lol.

also best tip I ever got was to listen to any recording on as many different systems as possible. Especially the car and an old shitty bop deck to pick up any issues before commiting it to the final mix.

Yeah that's why sending out your final mixes to dedicated mastering suites is pretty much the norm these days for the simple fact that they've got the gear, the listening environment and the monitors to replicate all manor of systems and adjust your mix accordingly.
I'm just waiting for a sample back from these guys http://channelfusemedia.com and if they can do a reasonable job I'll definitely be using them.
$200 for a full album mastered (up to 80 mins) and that includes -

1 RedBook Master Disc
1 Reference Disc
1 Data Disc with MP3's
Complete Error Check
Track Sheet Printout
Technical Feedback Letter
Mastering Revisions

Man I hope they don't suck hehehehe

kimball492
25-02-2015, 09:12 AM
http://www.pensadosplace.tv/2015/02/24/mixing-vocals/

bargeloobs
26-02-2015, 01:29 PM
Just thought I'd share my latest mix/master effort.
My mate Jones sent me a vocal and some rough guitars and asked me to write some music for a track for an up-coming Southern Rock album he's putting together.
Unfortunately Soundcloud takes a perfectly good lossless .wav file and transcodes it into a shitty 128 kbps mp3 so there's some really bad anomalies on the top end (It wasn't me I swear) most noticeable on the open hats.
Soundcloud issues aside this would have to be my best mix to date I reckon, although once Jones re-does the vocals we'll probably get it professionally mastered.
It's a cool song and you heard it here first.


https://soundcloud.com/sodacupkiller/thicker-than-water-test-mix/s-HcSyT

wokkaboy
26-02-2015, 01:46 PM
sounds awesome Barge, you are a wicked axe player, were you using Bladecatcher bro ?
I'm really impressed cuz

bargeloobs
26-02-2015, 01:49 PM
sounds awesome Barge, you are a wicked axe player, were you using Bladecatcher bro ?
I'm really impressed cuz

hehe cheers bro, yeah that was with the Bladecatcher and my crappy $200 LTD bass. It's kind of becoming my go to guitar when playing anything distorted now.

wokkaboy
26-02-2015, 02:01 PM
good stuff, it sounds great through my very low watt PC speakers.
So you must have got the gardening done, the forum is waiting for the Barge and Woks show haha

bargeloobs
26-02-2015, 02:11 PM
good stuff, it sounds great through my very low watt PC speakers.
So you must have got the gardening done, the forum is waiting for the Barge and Woks show haha

It doesn't sound as good as it should but you get the idea. Yeah we've been leveling out ground and putting down a heap of grass seed since most of the section was a baron wasteland when we moved in, planted a heap of trees yesterday too so a bloody productive little gardening stint. Not as fun as building guitars or sitting at the home studio but satisfying all the same:-)
I haven't seen any build progress out of Wokka lately, or did I just miss it?

wokkaboy
26-02-2015, 02:35 PM
yeah I've been building still Barge, just been slack updating build diaries. My dropbox account expired and I can't be bothered uploading photos from my phone.
Good work on the gardening bro.
Although I haven't been as productive in the workshop with side projects, did a heap of paving last weekend and building 3 axe racks took some time.
Hope to start building a jarrah table and benches for the pizza area this weekend, another side project !

bargeloobs
26-02-2015, 02:44 PM
Although I haven't been as productive in the workshop with side projects, did a heap of paving last weekend and building 3 axe racks took some time.
Hope to start building a jarrah table and benches for the pizza area this weekend, another side project !

Nice nice, you'll have to post some pics man!

wokkaboy
26-02-2015, 02:52 PM
what pics of axes or side projects bro ?
the 4D FB page has some pics of the new paving in the pizza oven area.
The jarrah table I'm going to build is going to weigh a ton, scored a heap of 50mm thick roof rafters from an old uni lecture room

bargeloobs
26-02-2015, 02:59 PM
what pics of axes or side projects bro ?
the 4D FB page has some pics of the new paving in the pizza oven area.
The jarrah table I'm going to build is going to weigh a ton, scored a heap of 50mm thick roof rafters from an old uni lecture room

All of it!! I'll have to go and have a nosy at the 4D site and see what you've been up too. I'd be interested to see that table too, sounds like a beast!

wokkaboy
26-02-2015, 03:02 PM
no worries Barge, alot of my updates you will see on the 4D FB page as it's easy to upload mobile pics. I can't stand accessing the forum on a mobile.
Keep an eye out about Sunday might have some pics up.
The table will take some prep work, it's 60+ year old jarrah and need to sand off the rough surface, but underneath there's some sweet deep red grain, I've sanded the 1st table top piece.

robin
26-02-2015, 03:51 PM
Hey Barge, that mix sounds so good, great song arrangement and great guitar playing. Its amazing what can be done these days with home recording these days.

I'm digging deeper into Reaper but I know I will never use a fraction of what its capable of. Add to that my naff guitar playing and it will be a long time before I'll be posting anything here. But you have inspired me to keep going.

Cheers mate.

bargeloobs
26-02-2015, 04:01 PM
Hey Barge, that mix sounds so good, great song arrangement and great guitar playing. Its amazing what can be done these days with home recording these days.

I'm digging deeper into Reaper but I know I will never use a fraction of what its capable of. Add to that my naff guitar playing and it will be a long time before I'll be posting anything here. But you have inspired me to keep going.

Cheers mate.

Hey thanks Robin, I can't really take credit for the arrangement, or the chord progressions for that matter, I just did all the music.
I first started playing around with FL Studio probably 6 years ago now (it was when we first moved to Aus) and it was all so confusing I nearly didn't bother. The best advice I can give, if you're really keen on getting into a bit of recording and production is to go and watch heaps of tutorials (in your case Reaper). There's no better way of learning than actually seeing someone else do it.
Watch a few vids and put what you've learned into practice and you'll be a pro in no time.

kimball492
26-02-2015, 11:02 PM
You'll be Surprised Robin , how quickly you'll pick up things watch videos and Barge is spot on watching some one in a video is much more inspiring than reading a manual. Here's the best $20.00 you can spend its normally $40.00 a video Tutorial for Reaper 4 by Kenny Gioia . He starts at the very beginning for newbies right through to some advanced techniques . The great thing is if you aren't sure about something rewind it . There great app works on Ipads, Macs and Pc's . I've used several of the Groove3 video Tutorials and are worth every cent.
http://www.groove3.com/str/reaper-4-explained.html

There's 7 and a half hours of lessons
Best Wishes
Kimball

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The Media Explorer

The Project Media...

Recording in Reaper

Editing in Reaper

The Grid & Snapping

Fades & Crossfades

Using Sends

Plug-Ins & Effects

Using Folders

Track Grouping

Track Templates

Ripple Editing

Item Grouping

Media Item Proper...

Item (Take) FX

Locking

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Using Automation

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Mixing Down & Stems

Markers & Regions

Using Dockers

Shortcuts, Menus ...

Takes & Comping

Mouse Modifiers


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kimball492
03-03-2015, 08:36 PM
Mixing techniques and tricks
http://mixingtricks.kajabi.com/fe/73338-mixing-trick-sample-1?submission=1421261

robin
04-03-2015, 06:02 AM
You'll be Surprised Robin , how quickly you'll pick up things watch videos and Barge is spot on watching some one in a video is much more inspiring than reading a manual. Here's the best $20.00 you can spend its normally $40.00 a video Tutorial for Reaper 4 by Kenny Gioia .

Thanks heaps Kim (and Barge). Managed to get a copy and it is an absolute goldmine of info.

Laid down some tracks (nothing more than a simple repeating 4 chord jam track, will rubbish guitars) and now I will go through the video and see if I can improve on it. I thought that building guitars was time consuming, its nothing compared to how much time I could spend on recording and mixing. Good fun.

cheers.

kimball492
04-03-2015, 12:20 PM
Yeah but the building guitars makes you a better player too then when you record , your recording improves its a wonderful circle of art . glad you liked the Video Kenny Gioia does some fantastic tutorials and I love groove 3 some great ideas.



The Guitar Setup And Maintenance series are good and covers

I'd recommend anyone that builds guitars here on Pitbull to get yourself a copy of this video because it's not just about building guitars that matters it's getting it to feel and play like a pro instrument.Well in Gibson's case play better than one of there setups
(On Going into local shop in Perth and trying some of the latest Gibson guitars .the strings where rusty the pickups set so high
They buzzed against the strings on the 10th fret and I'm sorry when your spending $2500 and upwards you expect some kind of quality .

http://www.groove3.com/str/Guitar-Setup-And-Maintenance.htm
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Truss Rod Adjustment

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bargeloobs
04-03-2015, 12:43 PM
Thanks heaps Kim (and Barge). Managed to get a copy and it is an absolute goldmine of info.

Laid down some tracks (nothing more than a simple repeating 4 chord jam track, will rubbish guitars) and now I will go through the video and see if I can improve on it. I thought that building guitars was time consuming, its nothing compared to how much time I could spend on recording and mixing. Good fun.

cheers.

Great to hear Robin, once you get over that initial hump she'll be all down hill and you'll be creating masterpieces. Stick at it man, and make sure to give us a demo once you're up and running:-)

kimball492
06-03-2015, 10:03 PM
Mixing tips
http://mixingtricks.kajabi.com/fe/73415-mixing-trick-sample-4

http://mixingtricks.kajabi.com/fe/73414-mixing-trick-sample-3

http://mixingtricks.kajabi.com/fe/73413-mixing-trick-sample-2

http://mixingtricks.kajabi.com/fe/73338-mixing-trick-sample-1

kimball492
06-03-2015, 10:07 PM
Nice Guitar work Barge on your new track

bargeloobs
07-03-2015, 03:30 AM
Nice Guitar work Barge on your new track
Cheers man, it's pretty "rawk" but should be cool once the vox go down.

stan
07-03-2015, 05:11 AM
great playing Bargie, Bladecatcher sounds really good. Hearing stuff from the upcoming CD also gives me a feel for how the pics for the cover should look.

Doesnt matter if your bass cost 200 or 2000, if it creates the sound you need, then it's good. I think people put a little too much kudos in expensive gear.

I would love to hear a shootout between cheap and expensive pups of the same windings value

Let's not forget that nice programs make life a lot easier but you still have to be able to play, and that you can Barge

bargeloobs
07-03-2015, 05:47 AM
great playing Bargie, Bladecatcher sounds really good. Hearing stuff from the upcoming CD also gives me a feel for how the pics for the cover should look.

Doesnt matter if your bass cost 200 or 2000, if it creates the sound you need, then it's good. I think people put a little too much kudos in expensive gear.

I would love to hear a shootout between cheap and expensive pups of the same windings value

Let's not forget that nice programs make life a lot easier but you still have to be able to play, and that you can Barge

Hey cheers Stan, really appreciate the feedback man. I'm glad you're getting some inspiration from the music, I can't wait to see what you come up with:-)
I think you're absolutely right regarding people blowing on about expensive gear, brand-names and finishes for that matter.
At the end of the day, if it sounds good I don't think it really matters how you got there, it's all about the end result.
It's kinda funny when I hear guys going on about push/pull pot values matched with capacitor x, using such and such pickup and 5 way switches bla bla bla for the best tone... and they literally can't even play:P
Furthermore I'd be willing to bet 98% of people couldn't even tell the difference between a Seymour Duncan and a Chinese special used under the same conditions in a random shootout.
Same goes for finishes.

bargeloobs
07-03-2015, 05:52 AM
Hey cheers Stan, really appreciate the feedback man. I'm glad you're getting some inspiration from the music, I can't wait to see what you come up with:-)
I think you're absolutely right regarding people blowing on about expensive gear, brand-names and finishes for that matter.
At the end of the day, if it sounds good I don't think it really matters how you got there, it's all about the end result.
It's kinda funny when I hear guys going on about push/pull pot values matched with capacitor x, using such and such pickup and 5 way switches bla bla bla for the best tone... and they literally can't even play:P
Furthermore I'd be willing to bet 98% of people couldn't even tell the difference between a Seymour Duncan and a Chinese special used under the same conditions in a random shootout.
Same goes for finishes.

Just for the record I'm no expert and probably couldn't tell the difference either...

pablopepper
07-03-2015, 06:32 AM
Tone is 100% personal preference anyway. Anyone claiming to have the best tone, really means they've found the best tone for themselves.

stan
07-03-2015, 11:14 AM
spot on Pabs.

True Bargey, or they have all the tone guru mods and upgrades, then throw the the whole lot through a pedal or effects rack and then it's all changed...

I think there is something to be said for quality product and tried and tested methods. I'd rather have a Gibson SG custom than a JP Luthiers one. However, you could go close to making the cheapie sound like the Gibbo, for far less $

Brendan
07-03-2015, 12:27 PM
Agreed Stan & Pabs - that's why we're here - we think we can get something sounding and looking great that we can be proud of and enjoy the process. And without the Gibbo / Fender / insert brand here pricetag.

stan
07-03-2015, 12:53 PM
for sure Brendan, I've seen stuff here that exceeds factory guitars, just look at the 2014 GOTY awards. The build quality is as good, if not better, and many of them use the same innards

bargeloobs
07-03-2015, 02:33 PM
spot on Pabs.

True Bargey, or they have all the tone guru mods and upgrades, then throw the the whole lot through a pedal or effects rack and then it's all changed...

I think there is something to be said for quality product and tried and tested methods. I'd rather have a Gibson SG custom than a JP Luthiers one. However, you could go close to making the cheapie sound like the Gibbo, for far less $

Agreed, there's a reason why we put upgraded electronics and hardware in out guitars and that's to enhance the reliability, playability and sound, like you say, many of these products are tried and tested.
As Pabs mentioned, the specific sound we craft from our instruments is totally subjective. I do however think the word "tone" gets bandied around far too liberally, many times without actually describing what sort of tone, or what sort of affect something has on a tone. To say this guitar, or this guitarist has a "great tone" or this specific finish "kills' tone really makes very little sense without actually qualifying the word with an adjective of some description.
I think the word "tone" as a singular needs to be banned, it's not some magical "thing" that exists, to be attained or strived after, or in some cases "killed".
Let's be a bit more descriptive ,and attempt cut through the confusion.

e.g the poly finish gave my guitar a dull, lifeless tone:-)

pablopepper
07-03-2015, 03:00 PM
Hear, hear! Well said, Barge.

vh2580
07-03-2015, 03:07 PM
I don't know how many times I've sat down with someone and taken turns on the same setup and thought how do they get it to sound like that in comparison to me. Personally I think a lot of it is from the player. I've heard some super cheap guitars sound pretty damn good.

stan
07-03-2015, 03:39 PM
too true Bargy.
I read an article written buy a guitar journo who visited Eddie Van Halen at his home studio (sorry dont remeber his name).
Eddie asked him if he wanted to have a go on his gear.
The journo jumped at the chance , as we all would.
I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially the journo said that he sound just like himself, an nothing like EVH.
The tone of your guitar is in your own hands.