PDA

View Full Version : abutton



abutton
01-01-2015, 07:25 AM
Hello, my name is Alan - I have never joined anything like this before and I am not familiar with many of the requirements of communicating like this.
I am also out of my comfort zone learning the guitar and music - tabs, music theory etc. and to top it off I am going to try and build a guitar??
I am in my 50's and have decided to just give these sorts of activities a go and see how far I get
I have ordered and received an SG12F Guitar and want to order the stain for it.
I don't know whether you need to stain the neck and if so what color - the videos don't show this bit - as far as I can see.
Could somebody help with this as their are stain colors for the neck on the Dingotone webpage.
Thanks,
Alan

gavinturner
01-01-2015, 08:10 AM
Welcome Alan!

There are plenty of experts here who can help you with your queries on Dingotone. Personally I colour my neck and headstock, but it's personal preference. Minimally you'll have to apply some form of clear coat to seal and protect the wood. While you wait to make final decisions on your finish, I would suggest doing a mock build to make sure all the parts fit together, and to get any necessary wood working out of the way. You can then start sanding (and sanding and sanding) long before final colours have been chosen :). Start a build diary thread for your build and share your experiences with all of us. It's a gret way to ask questions and get support and encouragement as you go.

Most of all, enjoy your build!

cheers,
Gav.

Scott J.
01-01-2015, 09:31 AM
Hey Alan, welcome to the "gang"... don't worry age, you're never too old (or too young) to enjoy yourself with something new (and there's plenty of us "old fogies" in the PBG crew! :D) ... and as Gav said, there's a plethora of information in the different forum threads and a mountain of experience in its members just waiting to be tapped ... and we're all keen to share the experience (and our opinions! :D)

... and do start a build diary (under the "My Build Diary" section) and keep it happening with plenty of pics (we all like looking at pics!) ... and also post there any problems you encounter - we all read each other's build diaries and you'll always get a number of answers to your queries.

WeirdBits
01-01-2015, 09:53 AM
Welcome Alan, comfort zones are overrated... just jump in with both feet. Gav's advice is on the money, and the mock build especially is a great place to start. Some people stain the body and neck with different colours, others carry the body stain through to the neck, personal preference really and depends on the look you're going for. Typically with products like Dingotone the top coat for the neck is a slightly different formula, which provides a harder more durable finish and remains fast to play under the hand. So, there can be value is using neck-specific concoctions.

I'd suggest having a look at the complete SG-1F's (I'm assuming that's what you have) in the Gallery section, and the in-progess builds in My Build Diary area and see if any colours or stain combo's leap out at you. Also, maybe search some SG images on Google and find a colour or look you particularly like, then the collective forum wisdom can offer some advice on how to achieve that finish.

Good luck with the build and don't be afraid to ask any and all questions.

(BTW, the 2nd half of the Dingotone video Part 2 shows the application of DT neck stain, I'll add a link here (http://youtu.be/RIieP-qpRrA))

Fretworn
01-01-2015, 11:54 AM
Welcome Alan! It can be a bit scary when you first start building. If you are in any doubt about anything, just ask a question here. I've never failed to receive an answer, usually very quickly.

Rob L
01-01-2015, 01:52 PM
Welcome Alan! I'm 52 and still can't read music, tab, and know nothing about theory. I just know what I like when I play/write it!
As to finishing, it's a personal thing really. While I have painted my headstocks in the past I have never dyed or painted the back of a neck. I sand them smooth and use tung oil on them.
Even with guitars I bought the first thing I do is sand the neck and tung oil. It's all in what you think will work for you. :)

Brendan
01-01-2015, 06:51 PM
Alan - you will need to finish the neck in something - the wood needs something to stop it from drying out and a good finish feels nice under your hands. The DingoTone stains go from colourless through to ambers - if you look at guitars on the web, they vary in amberness (new word I know) from natural wood to an almost orangy yellow. Comes down to personal preference - I like natural wood colours, others like Gav like a more amber stain.

kells80aus
02-01-2015, 03:54 AM
Hi Alan,
welcome to the group. Age is no barrier, I'm over 60, I started building guitars a few years back as an alternate hobby to spending my life in front of and knuckle deep inside PC's. I was an IT specialist in a past life. I am the first to admit I can't help about the shape I'm in
I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin. The guys here have coated and coloured their kits in any number of different products.
They've used Wudtone, Dingotone, Shellac, Tung oil, Tru-oil, acryllic, Nitro-Cellulose, and even stuff out of spray cans. So there is a wide range of knowlege about what works and what doesn't.

Did you mean your kit was a SG1F, because if there is a 12F I want one... being a 12 string. :)

Cheers PK
Somewhere on the other side of Melbourne. :)

abutton
08-01-2015, 11:39 AM
Thanks Gav,

Sorry I did'nt respond earlier I thought the posts would come thru to my email address

Thanks heaps for your advice - I will try and set up my Build Diary

Thanks again - I thought nobody was interested in my comments

Cheers,

Alan

abutton
08-01-2015, 11:43 AM
Thanks Scott,

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comments.

Really helps make me feel welcome and not a bit of a dill for having a go at building a guitar.

Also not too good with computers neither ha!

I will take your advice and start up a build diary

Hope to stay in touch

Cheers,

Alan

abutton
08-01-2015, 11:47 AM
Fantastic,

Thanks so much Scott.

Sorry for not replying sooner I am still getting used to how the Forum works

I really appreciate your advice and thoughts.

Hopefully I can continue to tap into your experience with all of this - again really appreciate it

Cheers,

Alan

gavinturner
08-01-2015, 11:50 AM
Hi Alan,

If you want to receive email notifications of replies, go to Settings > Subscriptions and select the threads you want to receive emails for. Click the "Selected Threads" button and select "Instantly using email".

Hope this helps.

cheers,
Gav.

abutton
08-01-2015, 11:51 AM
Thank you so much,

Sorry I didn't acknowledge your comments sooner - I am also struggling with the Forum - I thought I would get an email with any replies.

So the good news is I feel allot better after receiving yours (and others)

Cheers,

Alan

abutton
08-01-2015, 11:57 AM
Thanks so much Rob,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner - I am new at working with Forums - this is all new ground for me so forgive me if I stuff something up.

I really appreciate your comments - makes me feel a little relieved to know that there are other people doing these things at an older age and without allot of the traditional learning background.

i am having guitar lessons so hopefully I will get better as time goes on.

You are way ahead of me - good to hear you write your own songs also - i would love to think I could have a crack at writing a song one day.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my post

Cheers,

Alan

abutton
08-01-2015, 12:01 PM
Thanks Brendan,

Really appreciate your thoughts - sorry I am late in responding.

I actually thought you had to stain the front of the neck - and wondering how you get around all the frets and inlays!!

I really am starting from a zero knowledge base so I really appreciate your advice.

Thanks again,

Alan

abutton
08-01-2015, 12:08 PM
Hi PK,

Thanks so much for your comments - I think we may be identical twins in the looks department ha!!

Except I know nothing about computers - I am still not sure if what I am typing will get to you, so here's hoping

Also I stuffed up the guitar type i bought - it is only an SG1F sorry to disappoint you - geez 6 strings are already too many - I couldn't even imagine handling 12!

Thanks heaps for your reply - you sound like a real character - hope to keep in touch

Cheers,

Alan

wokkaboy
08-01-2015, 12:08 PM
welcome Alan, this post slipped under my radar. The SG-1F is an excellent kit to build and hope you have some nice figure in the flame maple cap.
I've built a few SG's so am happy to answer any questions you may have. Look forward to seeing the raw kit in the build diaries.
One word of advice don't sand the cap much, they are VERY THIN !

abutton
08-01-2015, 12:17 PM
welcome Alan, this post slipped under my radar. The SG-1F is an excellent kit to build and hope you have some nice figure in the flame maple cap.
I've built a few SG's so am happy to answer any questions you may have. Look forward to seeing the raw kit in the build diaries.
One word of advice don't sand the cap much, they are VERY THIN !

Thank you wokkaboy, I appreciate your comments - at the risk of sounding incredibly dumb.... - could you let me know what the cap is?

Thanks again for taking the time out to respond to my post

Cheers,

Alan

wokkaboy
08-01-2015, 12:28 PM
Hey Alan, sorry some guitar builders use different words for different parts. The cap is the thin veneer glued to the top of the body. If you wipe a damp cloth over the top you should see flame like lines going across the veneer

abutton
08-01-2015, 12:28 PM
Thanks Gav,

I will try this - I maybe would select this thread and my build thread, I think.

Thanks again - every little bit of info. like this helps!

Cheers,

Alan

wokkaboy
08-01-2015, 12:33 PM
Alan, here's an example of what the flame maple caps look like, this is one I built almost 2 years ago. You can 'pop' the flames by staining a darker stain on the cap first then sanding it back and then staining over a lighter colour

abutton
08-01-2015, 12:36 PM
Hey Alan, sorry some guitar builders use different words for different parts. The cap is the thin veneer glued to the top of the body. If you wipe a damp cloth over the top you should see flame like lines going across the veneer

Cool, thanks heaps wokkaboy - I am slowly learning the names of the guitar parts - thanks for being so nice about describing this to me - I am even annoying myself at being so short of knowledge in this area. It is a bit frustrating because I am pretty good at OH&S stuff (which is my job) so it is like going back to kindergarten and starting again.
Thanks again for your help.

Cheers,

Alan

abutton
08-01-2015, 12:45 PM
This looks beautiful!! this is exactly what I want my guitar to look like (and then it will be handy to learn how to play it!)

I have already ordered a stain from Dingotone ('Sunset' something or other?) because I just wanted to get onto staining it but I hope it turns out like yours.

It said in the video that you can add more layers to darken it up (it looks a bit ligher than yours)

I might have to do some more research on this - I don't think Dingotone had any darker (rich) stains available - not sure if you can mix and match with other brands of stains??

Thanks again - I might have to ask for more advice - tell me if I am bothering you too much!

Cheers,
Alan

wokkaboy
08-01-2015, 01:12 PM
Hey Alan, no problem, keep asking as many questions as you like. We all had to start as a newbie at some stage !
Sounds like you ordered outback sunset, its a great deepish orange colour. Have a think if you want to attempt a burst, you could go for a darker outside colour.
I've mixed Dingotone with other stains like Feast Watson prooftint stains and had no issues.
This is what a flame maple LP looks like after I stained it with black FW black stain and rubbed it back. Then you apply the colour stain the flames will really pop like the finished product. This was done in DT coolangatta gold

abutton
08-01-2015, 02:50 PM
Hey Alan, no problem, keep asking as many questions as you like. We all had to start as a newbie at some stage !
Sounds like you ordered outback sunset, its a great deepish orange colour. Have a think if you want to attempt a burst, you could go for a darker outside colour.
I've mixed Dingotone with other stains like Feast Watson prooftint stains and had no issues.
This is what a flame maple LP looks like after I stained it with black FW black stain and rubbed it back. Then you apply the colour stain the flames will really pop like the finished product. This was done in DT coolangatta gold

Thanks again wokkaboy - these look amazing too!! - I really like the soft rich tones that you got with the SG1F - I will have to work on this some more.

Thanks again, this is really helpful.

All the best,

Alan

wokkaboy
08-01-2015, 03:02 PM
no worries Alan thats what the forum is all about, we are trying to help everyone build a better guitar and guide you the right way.
Start a build diary I'm keen to see the kit you scored and hopefully there's not much glue on the body. First thing to do is do a mock build and make sure all the parts are there and to check the scale length, which I will explain when you have the mock build together

andrewdosborne
08-01-2015, 06:17 PM
G'day Alan! Welcome to the forums.

If my current SG1F kit is anything to go by you are going to have a ball. Just take your time, ask lots of questions no matter how trivial they may seem. You'll end up with a cracking guitar

abutton
09-01-2015, 01:19 PM
G'day Alan! Welcome to the forums.

If my current SG1F kit is anything to go by you are going to have a ball. Just take your time, ask lots of questions no matter how trivial they may seem. You'll end up with a cracking guitar

Thanks Andrew,

I am excited about building a guitar - especially this one - I picked it out and showed my wife - just as an aside and she bought it for me for Xmas.

I have ordered the stain and finishers and I am hoping to get a result like wokkaboys - I am not sure whether you can see his picture but it is exactly how I would like mine to look like.

Of course there is a lot more to it - especially as I am only just starting to learn playing the guitar but still I am keen to go as far as I can with all of the aspects of guitar playing.

I have really developed a passion for music as I have got older so I think this is a good way to get a feel for some of the fundamentals - at least with guitars.

Thanks heaps for replying to my post - as wanky as it sounds it is helping inspire me to push along.

Cheers,

Alan

wokkaboy
09-01-2015, 01:40 PM
good stuff Alan there's heaps of encouragement and inspiration in the forum.
Have you ordered 2 stain colours and are going to attempt a burst ?
this takes a bit of practice but sure with a practice on some scrap wood you can pull a nice burst off

bargeloobs
09-01-2015, 06:25 PM
Good luck and welcome along Alan, I promise you (however many reservations you have regarding building guitars) if you keep up a build diary and make good use of the people that inhabit this forum, you can't (and won't) go wrong.
Looking forward to seeing your progress mate.

abutton
10-01-2015, 06:00 AM
good stuff Alan there's heaps of encouragement and inspiration in the forum.
Have you ordered 2 stain colours and are going to attempt a burst ?
this takes a bit of practice but sure with a practice on some scrap wood you can pull a nice burst off

I have only ordered the Outback Sunset at this stage - I think this is going to be too light and not sure if extra coates will bring it up like yours.

Yours seems to be lighter in the middle and darker outside and I am a little nervous choosing a darker color because I dont think DT have a darker color except a really 'blacky' sort of color which I don't think will work??

I would definitely like to try the burst but could you suggest a darker stain to use??

I have ordered the intensifier and finishing varnish (?) as well - hopefully you just put these over the stains creating the burst??

What is the wood that I would have to get to do a trial?? - sorry lots of questions......

Its exciting and scary at the same time.

Cheers,

Alan

abutton
10-01-2015, 06:15 AM
Good luck and welcome along Alan, I promise you (however many reservations you have regarding building guitars) if you keep up a build diary and make good use of the people that inhabit this forum, you can't (and won't) go wrong.
Looking forward to seeing your progress mate.

Thanks bargeloobs,

Really appreciate your words of re-assurance and I admire the little quote - I keep thinking I have bitten off more than I can chew with trying to learn the guitar and then build one as well.

The logical thing would be to learn the guitar properly and then progress to building one if I actually succeed in becoming a competent guitar player!!

All you guys seem so genuinely nice and helpful too - which blows me away - hopefully I can achieve both and maybe one will compliment the other??

I think I need to practice soldering too - somewhere along the line I think someone said there were 40 soldering joints in an SG1F guitar - that scares the hell out of me as well

Ah well one step at a time I guess

Thanks again bargeloobs

Cheers,

Alan

DrNomis_44
14-01-2015, 05:14 AM
@abutton,

If it's any consolation, I'm a newbie at building guitars too so you're not the only one, by the way, welcome to the forum.

andrewdosborne
14-01-2015, 05:39 AM
G'day Alan, worth a practice on the soldering. I used various tutorials see the Pit Bull Guitar site, "Wiring the Pick-ups" see
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/videos/ (http://www.pitbullguitars.com/videos/),YouTube) plus some assistance from YouTube tutorials and my father who demoed the techniques on a Tele rebuild.

The thing that caused me tremendous grief was getting the soldering iron 'tinned' correctly. At one point it was as if I had taken up production in small ball-bearings (you'll know what I mean if this happens!). Solved this problem by using a tip cleaner such as the below, after which it was all quite straightforward.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1512

You'll find the soldering process a breeze with some practice and very rewarding once job done!

cheers

pablopepper
14-01-2015, 06:24 AM
"Bite off more than you can chew, then chew like hell." Peter Brock.

We were all beginners at one point. :)

wokkaboy
14-01-2015, 07:57 AM
Hey Alan,
I think one of the darker red stains or the brown nullabor ochre would look good in a burst. At the time I did mine I used wudtone cherry flamenco (darker red) in the centre and Black magic woman on the back and sides and the outside burst, which wasn't really a dark black. With Dingotone you start with the stain coat so you will start the burst with these in both colours. Then you go over with the intensifying coat, then once happy with the depth and blend you put clear coats on.
Not that important what wood to practice a burst on, even some pine would be ok to give you an idea how to blend the colours. That way you will see how the 2 colours you chose will look together.
As the others have said have a practice solder, if you shield the control cavity that eliminates a few solder joins to each pot as they will all be earthed making contact with the copper shielding tape.

abutton
14-01-2015, 02:44 PM
@abutton,

If it's any consolation, I'm a newbie at building guitars too so you're not the only one, by the way, welcome to the forum.

Thanks DrNomis - it definitely helps to know there are others like me.

I am a bit under confident at the best of times so this is really stretching my coping skills!

I am having to force myself to even touch the guitar and still really haven't done anything to it..

Thanks again,

Alan

abutton
14-01-2015, 02:49 PM
G'day Alan, worth a practice on the soldering. I used various tutorials see the Pit Bull Guitar site, "Wiring the Pick-ups" see
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/videos/ (http://www.pitbullguitars.com/videos/),YouTube) plus some assistance from YouTube tutorials and my father who demoed the techniques on a Tele rebuild.

The thing that caused me tremendous grief was getting the soldering iron 'tinned' correctly. At one point it was as if I had taken up production in small ball-bearings (you'll know what I mean if this happens!). Solved this problem by using a tip cleaner such as the below, after which it was all quite straightforward.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TS1512

You'll find the soldering process a breeze with some practice and very rewarding once job done!

cheers

Thanks Andrew,

I will definitely take your advice.

I am just trying to take one step at a time but all of this advice is sinking in and I will bebetter for it when I get to that stage.

Haven't soldered anything since Form 3 Metal Work Class at High School so no doubt it will present a challenge!

Thanks again for your encouragement and identifying little traps

Alan

wokkaboy
14-01-2015, 02:49 PM
Alan don't worry if you make a mistake, I'm sure it can be fixed or a work around. If I made a list of all the mistakes I've made it would be a very large document. Mistakes make you a better builder as you will try a different method next time !
I'd just jump in and start sanding mate !

abutton
14-01-2015, 02:52 PM
"Bite off more than you can chew, then chew like hell." Peter Brock.

We were all beginners at one point. :)

Thanks Pablo,

I actually really love the guitar I am building and don't want to ruin it but I will try and chew like hell!

Hopefully I don't choke.

Cheers,

Alan

abutton
14-01-2015, 02:54 PM
Alan don't worry if you make a mistake, I'm sure it can be fixed or a work around. If I made a list of all the mistakes I've made it would be a very large document. Mistakes make you a better builder as you will try a different method next time !
I'd just jump in and start sanding mate !

O.K. Good advice wokkaboy

I think once I actually start something I will be O.K. - just getting anxious while I am preparing and testing

Cheers again,

Alan

wokkaboy
14-01-2015, 02:58 PM
Alan the most stressful part of the build is gluing the neck in place, but by then you will have much more confidence and the forum will guide you through the process.
Lets see some photos of the body being sanded !
Once you make a start the nerves will disappear !
Actually have you started a build diary Alan ? this is still in the welcome section

abutton
14-01-2015, 03:01 PM
Hey Alan,
I think one of the darker red stains or the brown nullabor ochre would look good in a burst. At the time I did mine I used wudtone cherry flamenco (darker red) in the centre and Black magic woman on the back and sides and the outside burst, which wasn't really a dark black. With Dingotone you start with the stain coat so you will start the burst with these in both colours. Then you go over with the intensifying coat, then once happy with the depth and blend you put clear coats on.
Not that important what wood to practice a burst on, even some pine would be ok to give you an idea how to blend the colours. That way you will see how the 2 colours you chose will look together.
As the others have said have a practice solder, if you shield the control cavity that eliminates a few solder joins to each pot as they will all be earthed making contact with the copper shielding tape.

Thanks wokkaboy,

Did you say that you put the dark stain on first, sand back and then put the lighter over the top?

I was thinking that this was to bring out the lines crossing the grain direction.

I think the burst is more the darker outside color blending into the lighter color into the middle of the face of the guitar.

I am getting there - and as you say I will practice on some pine first (which I have got)

Thanks again for your continued support and advice.

I know I am better prepared because of your comments and suggestions

Cheers,

Alan

wokkaboy
14-01-2015, 03:09 PM
Yeah Alan if you want to 'pop' or highlight the flames I'd put a black stain coat on the cap without any sanding, then sand it back till you have light areas of grain between the flames. I'd use 220 or 240 grit to do this. You want to minimise the sanding on the thin caps
Then you can commence the burst.
Have a practice at blending the 2 DT colours on the pine is a great idea, just use a little bit so you have enough of the dominate colour

abutton
15-01-2015, 04:02 PM
Alan the most stressful part of the build is gluing the neck in place, but by then you will have much more confidence and the forum will guide you through the process.
Lets see some photos of the body being sanded !
Once you make a start the nerves will disappear !
Actually have you started a build diary Alan ? this is still in the welcome section

Youre right - I think I just need to get stuck into it - hopefully I will cut the headstock on the weekend and then start sanding.

I think i have started a Build Diary and posted a picture but just of the base kit.

As soon as I do something to it I will post an update.

Time to stop talking and start doing ha!

Thanks also for the pop and burst suggestions - I have ordered the Nullabor Ochre - I think I will just stick to the burst for now

Cheers,

Alan