Help! Busted screw (grumble)

[GlennGP]

Was installing the scratchplate and this happened. I pre-drilled the hole with a 1.5mm bit, and was using a hand-driven ratchet screwdriver to drive the screw in, and the head of the screw twisted off. Any hints on recovering from this without doing a lot of damage?

[dingobass]

Ouch! I feel your pain Glenn :(

Stewmac have a great tool for removing broken screws, (Guitar screw rescue kit) it has four bits. A small hole saw to remove the broken screw, a drill bit, plug cutter and drill guide.

This is a very handy tool that is well worth the investment of $75.58.

[Brendan]

Glenn - DB has put up a how to do tute here for just this occasion.: http://www.buildyourownguitar.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=2742.

That said - unless you have the StewMac kit, it could be a bit of a pain to remove without doing a bit of damage to that fine colour you've got. Hence...

Option #2 and this will get me to the naughty room for sure. Drop of CA glue on the screw head and glue it back on to the rest of the screw. Given it's one of a dozen or so pickguard screws, it's not going to be carrying a lot of weight. You will want to be careful as you don't want to superglue the pickguard on. You will need to be eternally vigilant though that a simple knock doesn't leave you with needing to fix the issue months later without the head to the screw.

Option #3 - cheaper than the StewMac kit - new pickguard with no holes drilled - make sure you don't overlap the hole and you should be right. It looks like there isn't much of the old screw that is sticking out from the body so it looks like it could be done.

Not sure if any of these are what you are looking for. I know #2 & 3 don't actually fix the problem, but I understand that $75 + postage is a lot to fix a single screw in a single guitar. Others may also have similar / better solutions.

[Gavin1393]

Stewmac also sell a handy screw driver set for around $40, includes all the guitar screw driver, allan key, etc. bits you will ever need plus bits to 'pre-drill' the position of the screw. i find this tool so invaluable that I bought a second set. originally a DB recommendation too!

I think that it is important to understand that when using screws that forcing a screw into wood creates friction and the metal screws heat up to high temperatures very quickly making the screw susceptible to snapping as it did in this case. Rule of thumb is to measure the diameter of the screw and use a (drill) bit that is 2/3rd's of the screws diameter to bore your hole. It is also prudent to rub a little candle wax over the screw before inserting it into the wood to reduce friction.

[GlennGP]

All sensible suggestions. Gavin, I do pre-drill on a roughly 2/3 diameter rule of thumb, but the only screws I've waxed have been those long important ones that attach the neck to the body! I honestly thought I had my bases covered ...

Tonight I'll take the scratchplate back off and investigate whether we have any of the shaft protruding. If so, I should be able to grasp that bugger with some pliers or multigrips and, with some carefully administered elbow-grease, retrieve it. If not, I think I'll push on and resolve this later. The Minister for War and Finance will not look kindly upon an investment of the scale required for the specialised retrieval kit at the moment. :-(

[dingobass]

Brendan’s idea of gluing the head on isn’t a bad one.
I would rough the under side of the head and CA glue it to the pickguard.. it wont come off again in a hurry :)

[wokkaboy]

might be an easier fix Glenn as DB suggested. Sure the pickguard should remain flat with one missing screw, looks like its on the bass side of the tremelo

[WeirdBits]

If you're desperate to fix it and can't pursue the other options, here's what I would try... but test it on some scrap first. Drill a hole about the diameter (or slightly larger) of the broken screw hard up against it on the inboard side. Then use an awl or screwdriver etc to pry/lever the broken stub sideways to the new hole to release it and get it out. Mix some sawdust with your blue stain and when dry mix in a touch of Titebond and work it into a firm putty, hopefully matching the body colour, and plug the hole (should have about 5mins working time with the glue). If the mix is firm enough you should be able push it in flush with the surface and not need to sand. Give it 24hrs, drill your new hole, and you should be good to go. I haven't tried this, so I'd test it on some scrap wood first (screw in a small screw, cut the head off and give it a try). Caveat emptor.

[GlennGP]

Interesting idea Weirdy. I was thinking of something similar.

So, there was some shaft visible but I just haven't been able to shift it. I set that idea aside for the evening and moved on to installing the machine heads on the headstock. Pre-drilled, correct depth marked on the bit, waxed those teeny little screws, and the heads of two of THOSE fricken screws twisted off. I was just about ready to throw the whole thing into the neighbour's skip. I honestly don't know how I'm going to fix this. The screw recovery kit is starting to look good, but it's not happening this year. Might have to put the whole project on hold till next year. To think, I thought I was going to be playing it this weekend. So disappointed.

[WeirdBits]

Have you recently been exposed to gamma rays?

One screw is bad, but three... that's just cruel. I feel for you mate. I guess your options are pretty much the same as before, just don't do anything rash while you're angry... like I would.

[dingobass]

Awww CRAP!

One screw, fair enough but three?.... Especially after you waxed the screws :(

[Brendan]

Glenn - you chasing black cats with mirrors? Sorry to hear about the latest setback... You don't know someone close with one of those screw remover doohickeys?

[wokkaboy]

bummer Glenn luck hasn't been with you, were you using a 1.5mm drill for the tuner screws and 2mm for the pickguard screws ?
That sucks bad to have in your plans to play it this weekend. I'd sit on it and we will rethink a solution tomoz

[kells80aus]

The right drill bit to use for screws. Way way back in the dim dark ages when I was a tech for what was then Australia's only phone carrier system. I was taught to hold the drill bit up in front of the screw and if the drill bit covers the shaft of the screw, but you can still see the thread of the screw then this is pretty much the right drill to use. I also use a bit of masking tape on the drill bit to act as a depth guide. add to that I also only use a hand drill to pilot these small shallow holes.
Of course the older I get, the harder it is to see these damn tiny little screws.

PK

[GlennGP]

Kells, that's exactly what I do. Hold the bit up in front of the screw, match the width of the shaft (or slightly less, but never more) and ensure I can see thread. I've been using the same technique for years. This is the third PB kit I've built, and the first time this has happened. All the other screws have gone in without any trouble, with identical preparation, so it's maddeningly difficult to spot the variable so that I can rectify preparation and avoid repeating whatever the mistake is.

Brendan, I don't know anyone within spitting distance with the screw recovery doohickey, unless I want to take a drive to the central coast and say hi to Gavin. I could buy one myself for the price of the petrol required for the trip, though! Or I could take the guitar in to the local luthiery and get them to do the job with the right tools but, again, for the price of paying them to do it I could buy the tool myself.

While there are fixes for the scratchplate, there's absolutely no getting around having a broken screw in the wrong place for the tuners. It will have to be fixed properly. So I believe I'll be putting the Guitardis in mothballs once I do all the few remaining things I can do, and I'll start saving my pocket money for the screw recovery kit.

And let's face it, there are far worse things to have a run of bad luck on. On the upside, things can only get better. Right? (touching wood ...)

[wokkaboy]

Glenn were the tuner screws fairly hard to turn the screw ? Might be worth getting a piece of scap wood and trying the next drill size up. I used to use a 1mm drill in tuner screws and can't believe I didn't break any heads off.
Maybe you got some weaker screws but sounds like the recovery kit is the only solution

[Fretworn]

Were these all stock screws from the kit? I believe that the smaller screws in the kits are inferior products. I'm leaning towards the belief that changing machine head and pickguard screws are almost mandatory customisations for all kits. (Closely followed by the machine heads themselves.)

[GlennGP]

Wokka - my prep for the tuner screws was the same for all. Marked the 1st and 6th, drew a line between them, then marked the intermediate ones by sighting the line through the hole in the hardware. Pre-drilled with 1.5mm bit to the screw depth (marked with tape on the bit). Waxed the screws. Four went in without trouble (counting from the bass end, no.s 1, 2, 4 and 6) two didn't (no.s 3 and 5). Like I said above, isolating the issue is maddening when you batch the preparation like this, and I am a bit autistic about it.

Fretty, yes, all stock screws from the kit.

I shopped around at lunchtime, but nobody has a screw extractor kit locally that will deal with screws with such small gauges. The lowest they really go 8g, and these are 5g or possibly less. This appears to me to be why the StewMac recovery kit is necessary, because it's too difficult to bore into the centre of something that small. I'm resigned to either saving up or dropping some heavy hints for Christmas presents to the better heeled relatives. :-)

[wokkaboy]

yeah ok Glenn sure you did it the normal procedure. Sounds like the screws were sub standard. Good idea ask for a SM kit for xmas.
It's a good warning to all other builders to take care when drilling tuner screws and its worth lubricating the screw before

[Shoota]

Try a thick wide rubber band over the Brocken screw and use a slightly smaller screw driver. The rubber band will fill the gaps. It's good for stripped screw heads. Might work on your broken one.

[AJ]

** One thing to note ---- These little screws are generally cheap rolled metal threads (stamped) and any over tourqing/ tightening will break the little blighters, especially when they heat up due to friction when inserting them. Also, soap is an alternative lubricant that can be used on the thread before inserting ..:p

[Brendan]

+1 for the use of soap - my old woodwork teacher showed me how to do it that way and have used it ever since.

[Blowen]

If you don't want to get the kit you could make a drill guide up. For scratch plate cut ply template as per scratch plate with a steel drill guide over broken screw, drill guide will stop bit wandering. Because of the small size and easy out or screw extractor not available i have in the past shaped a small Allen key to suit. Once the centre is relieved by drilling the shaped key will bite into the hole and you have a handle already on it. The same goes for the tuner screws just a different guide set up. Cost in materials is small. Left handed drill bits also work well in this situation as once drilled so far bit tends to bite and the screw wind out. Any question on a jig I would be happy to help with a drawing or even make one if you want to pay postage(not sure where you are?) let me know if I can help
Cheers and happy new year

[DrNomis_44]

If you're desperate to fix it and can't pursue the other options, here's what I would try... but test it on some scrap first. Drill a hole about the diameter (or slightly larger) of the broken screw hard up against it on the inboard side. Then use an awl or screwdriver etc to pry/lever the broken stub sideways to the new hole to release it and get it out. Mix some sawdust with your blue stain and when dry mix in a touch of Titebond and work it into a firm putty, hopefully matching the body colour, and plug the hole (should have about 5mins working time with the glue). If the mix is firm enough you should be able push it in flush with the surface and not need to sand. Give it 24hrs, drill your new hole, and you should be good to go. I haven't tried this, so I'd test it on some scrap wood first (screw in a small screw, cut the head off and give it a try). Caveat emptor.

@ WeirdBits.

I just gave this idea a try since I had a guitar neck with a screw in it that I couldn't remove due to the head of the screw breaking off, I managed to remove the screw but instead of using sawdust, I used a piece of 8mm wooden doweling I had lying around, the method does seem to work, I glued the piece of doweling in place with some PVA glue then cut off the excess flush with the back of the headstock.

[WeirdBits]

Glad it worked out for you.

[kimball492]

Give these a try
Heat it up w/a soldering iron & let it cool down will come right out or I cut a slot in the top with a dremal tool and ease it out with a screw driver.

[andrewdosborne]

I'll have to remember those tips kimball, may come in handy (hopefully not..)....

[kimball492]

Yeah I hope you never need them Andrew

[DrNomis_44]

I'm definitely going to have to invest in the Stewmac screw-extractor kit one day, maybe this year.

[JayBoy]

I thing i do when screwing in a screw to wood or metal is to drill a pilot hole then put the screw in 1 turn, then back it out 1/2 a turn, then screw it another full turn, then out 1/2 a turn. Just keep going over and over until its in. Stops it binding up if theres any material in the hole.

[GlennGP]

I have the kit now, just need to make some time to complete the guitar.

[baders]

Resurrecting this one. Had the same thing happen on the tuner screws for the JBA4M. Pre-drilled 1.5mm to correct depth. Wound screws in slowly but 3 have broken off. I examined the screws closely and they are certainly of inferior quality and not up to the task. Adam was commendably quick with an email reply but could offer nothing more than replacement with similar inferior screws or suggested go out and buy decent ones. I'll go the latter. Some good information above that I will be utilising today.

However, this is obviously a continuing problem that should be addressed by Pitbull and the factory, one would think.

[dingobass]

Busted screws are not all that common of a problem. Out of more than 4k kits sold there has been maybe a dozen.
With tuner screws, they really dont need to be driven in very tight as their function is to primarily stop the machine head spinning.
What I do is drill the hole 3/4 of the depth (taking into account the thickness of the machine head screw tab) with a 2mm bit.
Then I smear some wax on and gently drive it and it will cut its own way in (usually 2mm is ample)
Never had one come out or break using this method.

[baders]

Thanks DB. Having been an engineer for some 35 years, believe me when I say the screws that came with my kit were sub standard. I use the correct method of installation. The things were falling to pieces even gently extracting them. That said, below is what I have done to remedy. Hopefully this can help someone else.

1) Attempted to "slot" the broken off screws to use a small flat screwdriver to remove. Not successful.
2) Drilled two shallow 2mm holes 180 deg apart;

11050

3) I then used my smallest side cutters to gently grip the broken piece and unscrew;

11051

4) This left shallow but wide holes with still plenty of meat for the new screws to grip;

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5) The offending rubbish screws plus a good 4 gauge (3mm) x 9mm screw from Bunnings on right;

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6) The finished job;

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[wokkaboy]

good fix Baders. The new screw heads are bigger but still looks fine

[wazkelly]

I have used the cheap and cheerful Chinese screws on all 4 builds and no breaks.......helped them along by using the soap on thread method and a small drill bit to make the pilot holes.

[Gavin1393]

However, this is obviously a continuing problem that should be addressed by Pitbull and the factory, one would think.

Really feel your pain baders,

I have built just over 60 guitars now. Early on in my 'learning' phase I made the mistake of allowing friction to heat up the tuner screws and suffered the frustration of trying to remove the broken screw. This was on a very expensive set of tuners I might add! Grrrrr!

To add to what has been said already. Here are my steps summarised:
I will take my Vernier and measure the diameter of the screw.
Next, select a drill bit roughly 2/3 to 3/4 the diameter of the screw. Measure the thread portion of the screw up against the drill bit and apply a small piece of tape around the bit to act as a depth stop. Carefully mark and then drill the pilot holes required.
Next, using wax or soap, coat the screw.
Select the appropriate screw driver. It must fit perfectly, not undersized or oversized as this could strip the screw.
Without applying ANY force screw the screws into the pilot holes. It, in any way you are struggling to get the screws in, the chances are that the crew is heating up due to friction. When very thin screws heat up they snap. Stop, rewind allow the screw to cool and commence again. If you are still struggling, check that the drill bit you used is not too small (based on the recommendations).
This has assisted me to fit the tuners on all my subsequent builds without breaking a screw - however - I do stress EVERYtime !