Replacing Fret Dots

[Brendan]

Third or fourth attempt at replacing fret dots and thought I'd put up a little how to for anyone who's interested. While the technique may not be totally correct - it fits the tools, skill level and time I have and achieves the outcome I'm looking for.

Estimated time ~ 3 - 4 hours depending on how accurate / lucky you are in getting the fret dots in.

Level of difficulty: Beginner (ish). i.e., not too hard, but it is possible to stuff things up and you have to drill the dot out again. I am only on my 3rd, 4th and 5th build and have no woodworking experience to draw on, so if I can do it, it must be at the hardest beginner. NOTE - it is also possible to damage the fretboard with some dings, etc, so you do need to be careful.

Overall cost: Dots ~$.15 add $7 for delivery to Aus. Tools wear and tear, bit of sandpaper and some superglue. So for one guitar call it ~$8, cheaper if you order enough dots for a couple of guitars.

Ingredients:
Drill with sharp 2.5 - 3mm bit
Fret dots - PBG fret dots are apparently 6mm, so go for those - mine were sourced from: http://orders.mopsupplies.com/. Australian company and quick to turn around. Only ordered from them once so currently have 100% success rate for me! Other than that eBay???
Needle nose pliers.
Stanley knife.
Safety glasses.
Small file.
Couple of grits of sandpaper and some steel wool (180, 240, 400, 800, 1200 and 0000).
Superglue - StewMac #10 or #20 is spot on for the job.
Dremel (handy if you order dots that are too big - but shouldn't be required if you don't). Could also be substituted with a drill press and 1/4" brad point drill bit.

Tip: Throughout the steps below, the word Gently will make a regular appearance. If you are not gentle, you can chip the fretboard, drill a whole lot deeper than you want, etc. So, don't rush and be gentle :).

(being a beginner I've put in everything so sorry if it's a touch simple / dry):

Also forgot to take a photo of the tools, though did take photos of most of the key steps... May do a vid at some point - need some more dots and another neck first though.

[Brendan]

Step 1. Removing the dots...
Note - as stated above, this could also be done with a drill press, the right size brad pointed bit and some time of which I don't have #1 or #2, hence the process below.

Put the safety glasses on.
Gently drill a hole in the middle (ish) of the dots - I've not been too accurate or exacting. Make sure though that you don't go hard - as soon as you break through plastic, stop (see photo below).
Grab your trusty needle nosed pliers and insert one of the sides gently into the newly drilled hole.
Gently (that word again) pry the dot out. It may split and crack and shatter - hence the glasses. It may also start to chip out the fretboard. If you notice this, back off and try making a small cut between the dot and the fretboard to reduce impact. If something chips out, keep the chip - you'll be glueing in later and can glue the chip in as well.
Repeat as necessary to remove as much of the dot and dots as you can with this method.
If you still have some dot detritus polluting a hole you can try to pop it out with your stanley knife or maybe a dremel or similar tool. I found a lot of something that looks like PVA style glue at the bottom of the hole - almost like they were using it to fill the holes they had over drilled - came out easily with the dremel.
[OPTIONAL STEP IF, LIKE ME YOU ORDER DOTS THAT ARE TOO BIG] Using an engraving bit in your dremel, gently run around the outside of the hole to increase the size. Take it slow and easy. You want to keep those holes about the size of the dot (so it needs to be pushed in) and most of all, round. Be careful doing this - check regularly. You can make the hole too big, which will be a bit of a challenge filling.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/xe363-WP_20140206_008.jpg
Couple of the tools and the process is underway.
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/7tgpp-WP_20140206_009.jpg
De dotted neck - note slightly jagged edges of some of the holes - man they use a lot of glue in them suckers.

[Brendan]

Step 2. Re dotting the fretboard...

Crack out the trusty StewMac superglue and the dots. Pick out the winners and get ready to dot!
Make sure your dots are the right size - the superglue goes off relatively quickly so you don't have time to realise the holes / dots are too small. DON'T put the dot in yet - they are hard to get out...
Place a tiny amount of superglue (dab if that) in the first hole.
Quickly and carefully place the dot in the hole.
Gently force the dot in as close as you can to level with your fingers - being careful of the superglue - it can be sanded off the fretboard if needed, but let's not make any more mess than necessary. Ideally it will be level / a tiny bit proud at this stage.
Try not to push the dot in too far - dots from mopsupplies are ~1.3mm thick and the holes I've seen are deeper.
If the dot is still very proud, you can use a clamp such as a quick grip and some scrap to force it in as well.
Bear in mind - the superglue does dry relatively quickly, so you don't have ages to work on the dots. That said, you don't have to wait too long for the dots to be ready for the next step.
Continue above process to get all the dots in.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/965e6-WP_20140206_010.jpg
First dot is in. Note superglue and supply of dots. For this build I've used Black MOP (Mother of Pearl).
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/t08hu-WP_20140206_011.jpg
Dots are in. Forgot the bit about not making too much mess. Oh well, more to clean up next step.

[Brendan]

Step 3 - Levelling the Dots.
Purists may suggest using 320 grit and going up from there. I've found you can get away with the following:

If you have a very small (mini) file such as these (http://www.bunnings.com.au/trojan-10-piece-mini-file-set_p5760077) you can knock the tops of any very proud dots. Given the depth of the holes and my use of a dremel, I erred on the side of pretty proud. When knocking the tops off any dots, be gentle and try to work the top of the dot so it's parallel to the fretboard. Don't go too low as you don't want any scratches running perpendicular to the fretboard.
Crack out the trusty sandpaper. I've taken a photo with a couple of my grits using Gav1393's eraser idea and my own twist - adding the grit # to the end of the eraser. Gently sand the dot down. I have used 2 techniques - first - get a corner of the eraser and have the paper showing slightly over the edge. Using the corner only, use gentle swirls on the dot ONLY. Second technique, using an edge of the eraser, work with the grain of the fretboard and work that way. I favour the first as I don't want to take anything off the fretboard if I can. That said, the second does knock the edges off the dots more quickly.
Take your time and work through the grits, finishing with the steel wool at the end. This should leave you with some nicely polished dots, ready for the fretboard to be oiled!

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/dend9-WP_20140208_007.jpg
Sanding started - sandpapers out.
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/7r052-WP_20140208_005.jpg
Couple of dots done. Small chux is used to clear some of the dust - even with Black MOP, white dust is in abundance.
Post of the final outcome tomorrow hopefully! Will include some of Black MOP and Paua to show difference in dots.

[Gavin1393]

Nice doco!

[lawry]

Nicely written procedure, Brendan. You've made it sound easy enough for me to have a go, and that's scary!
Thanks, man.

[dingobass]

Nice one Brendan. As a side note, if you find some chipping occouring you can back fill around the dots with sanding dust from the fingerboard and place a drop of super glue on it. The super goo will wick and after a few applications of dust and glue you will have a nice clean dot inlay at the end of the process...

[Brendan]

Thanks for that guys. Forgot to add - kudos to Gav1393 who showed me how to do it in the first place and DB for mentioning this technique.

@Lawry - going on your work to date, you can so do this...
@DB - thanks for that - forgot that bit...

[adam]

Excellent tutorial Brendan, prepare to be Sticky'd.

[maxaxe]

Thanks Brendan, I will be referring to your fine tutorial when the time comes.
I have a re-dotting job to do on a coming project and this will be immensely helpful.

[Brendan]

Differences in effect between different types of shell.
Couple of photos to show effects of different shell against different backgrounds - some work - some don't.
First series - Black MOP.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/43788-WP_20140209_007.jpg
Black MOP on Rosewood. Doesn't stick out too much, but was the look I was going for.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/5dl63-WP_20140209_001.jpg
Black MOP on Maple. Sticks out quite nicely.
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/qp49t-WP_20140209_002.jpg
More photos to show how light affects the MOP differently.

[Brendan]

Paua:


http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/7mk82-WP_20131020_001.jpg
Paua on Maple - haven't got fret dots, so closest thing is the logo. Doesn't stand out terribly well & hard to get a good photo. Next time I'll do something different.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/y6x6l-WP_20140209_005.jpg
Paua on Rosewood. Neck has been defretted, hence the different look.

[Brendan]

Paua logo on Rosewood for comparison.
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/70175-WP_20140206_006.jpg

[gavinturner]

Great tutorial Brendan. Thanks so much for writing this up!
You've definitely given me the confidence to try it. Thanks dude!

cheers,
Gav.

[Brendan]

Gav, personally think it's well worth it - it does take some time, but I look and see - all high end guitars have some form of natural dots - abalone, paua, MOP, etc. Therefore darnit - so should mine!

[Brendan]

Finally got around to doing a vid. Ads has put it up on the Pitbull Youtube channel (https://youtu.be/9yA4c4rTseY). Couple of things I learnt -
1. Don't do videos outdoors on a 36 deg day in Perth - it's hot, windy and the CA glue dries more instantly than normal,
2. Don't cover the job when you're trying to demo how to do it - at one point my hand obscures me drilling - I could redo it, but won't as I figure you all know how to drill anyway.

If you see it, I did make one mistake that Ads picked up straight away - I needed to be more careful with the pliers as I did dent the fretboard slightly near one of the dots - will need to steam that out gently...

As above - this is about my 6th go at it, so I'm still pretty raw - happy to take tips on how to improve!

[dingobass]

Nice one BP :)

Only thing I do differently is I use a scribe point or a small flat head screw driver to lever the old dots out.
Lessens the chance of damaging the fret board.

[Brendan]

New trick - is use a screw - drill the hole in the dot, screw a screw in enough so it has a good bite and then the dots wiggle out easily - with no damage to the fretboard.

[andrewdosborne]

New trick - is use a screw - drill the hole in the dot, screw a screw in enough so it has a good bite and then the dots wiggle out easily - with no damage to the fretboard.

Great tip Brendan!

[Brendan]

Great tip Brendan!

Learned it the hard way. Using something to lever the dots out runs the risk of damaging the fretboard.


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[MusicStudent1]

I build plastic model kits as a hobby and this got me to thinking - has anybody attempted to carefully paint the tops of those dots with model paint?

I am thinking about changing the color of my position marker dots from dull white to red. That would be no different from painting a small plastic model. I could do it neatly - they make all kinds of paint, too. Just wondering.

Bad idea?

[Sonic Mountain]

Sure you could do that. I think it'd probably wear off fairly quickly, unless it was under a sealing coat, but you could touch it up with string changes I suppose.

There are a few places that do vinyl fret markers.. I wonder if they'd do red dots to got straight on top?

[MusicStudent1]

Sure you could do that. I think it'd probably wear off fairly quickly, unless it was under a sealing coat, but you could touch it up with string changes I suppose.

There are a few places that do vinyl fret markers.. I wonder if they'd do red dots to got straight on top?

Thanks for the validation. Paint wearing off problem....hmmmm. I could spray paint and clear coat these stickers from Amazon before sticking them on.

https://www.amazon.com/Traditional-Diamond-Markers-Sticker-Decals/dp/B07HNQGZYQ/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=Inlay+sticker+position+markers+guitar+red&qid=1595827524&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-10

36697

I guess the problem is workmanship...in order to look good, the markers should be flush with the fretboard. Too much paint, and they’d be sticking up.

It might be worth avoiding having to drill and pull out the old dots. Man, that seems like a pain!