Mis-aligned bridge holes

[adam]

Hey guys,

We have a customer who is really unhappy that he has received a kit that has "mis-aligned" bridge post holes. You can see from the photos that he has had to fill the holes with dowel and re-drill, which has ruined the great finish he has.

I wanted to ask the community how they would handle this one. You know our philosophy, if the kit we supply is faulty, we will replace or refund.

However, with this one, I don't know if the holes are incorrectly drilled or if he's put the neck on crooked?

What would you like to see to determine whether the kit is faulty? (I did ask for measurements, but haven't received anything yet)?

Thanks for your input. Hopefully the customer concerned will join this conversation and describe the issue.

[adam]

sorry, forgot to add the photos.

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/5380g-nathan-LP-1-1.jpg
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/7975y-nathan-LP-1-2.jpg
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/rvly6-nathan-LP-1-3.jpg

[Analyst69]

Seems like the strings don't line up nicely over the pickups now the bridge has been moved.

I assume this is a set neck kit. I have only built one set neck kit (non-pitbull) but there was some very valuable advice on this forum (and others) about checking the alignment before gluing. If I had not read this I may have had a result like this.

I still have a pitbull LP1 kit to build and from all my preliminary checking, the neck lines up nicely, but has a small amount of movement and will need some care t line up with the bridge. A millimetre of movement at the joint can equate to a lot across the length of the neck.

I think the million dollar question here is did the builder follow the forum information for aligning the neck as detailed in the following link?

http://www.pitbullguitars.com/?page_id=42&mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=302.0

I really think that not following the procedure (or similar) is bound to cause these problems. And it should definitely be worked out before applying finish.

Maybe in future there needs to be something in big 24 point font in the box that tells people they must refer to the forum information before assembling their guitar.

Not sure if this helps.

Cheers

Darren

[stan]

bit hard to tell from the pics if the holes we misaligned in the first place, you need an overall pic from directly above to form any opinion on this one.

I have a lefty ES kit with bridge hole drilled for a right instead of left - I was offered a refund, but intend to make it work - I am planning to inset a piece of ebony across the area, and redrill - make a feature of it.

Alternatively you could put discs like washers under the bridge posts, just big enough to hide offset holes, and cover the repair,
Or paint a solid colour.

[vh2580]

It could be just the photo angle, but if you look at the right side of the bridge and can see half a hole of dowel and can also see dowel on the left side ( unless its chipping). If you moved the bridge left you should technically see only finished body similar to how the tailstock looks,
Agree you need an overhead of the body and measurements.

[Analyst69]

With the bridge moved a few millimetres north, the strings don't align nicely over the pickup posts. In this context, for it to be a fault of the guitar kit the neck heel route would have to be totally mis-aligned with the pickup routes (and bridge).

Not sure this would be possible unless the body actually shifted in the middle of routing. Assuming its a CNC, I would expect the body to stay put.

Cheers

Darren

[Analyst69]

/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from vh2580 on January 5, 2014, 18:45
It could be just the photo angle, but if you look at the right side of the bridge and can see half a hole of dowel and can also see dowel on the left side ( unless its chipping). If you moved the bridge left you should technically see only finished body similar to how the tailstock looks,
Agree you need an overhead of the body and measurements.

Well spotted vh2580. Looking at the bridge in the photo which shows the left side post, and comparing it with my factory guitars with tun-o-matics, the bridge angle now looks way too severe. I'm not entirely sure the fix is in the right place now (although doesn't answer the question of whether the kit was faulty).

Cheers

Darren

[Analyst69]

Don't mean to be the only one commenting so much on this one (maybe I should gather my thoughts better before posting).

FWIW, I suspect a crooked neck gluing. Taking into account the strings not lining up over the pickup posts and the moved bridge position not aligning centrally over the middle cap join (I know, its not necessarily always centred), I don't believe the claim that the bridge posts were misaligned. The neck route could still, however, have been crooked.

I do think the following photo is the one we need to understand how the neck is seated (and confirm if it is the route or the gluing):

Cheers

Darren
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/7t8ay-20140105_233542.jpg

[AJ]

think you need a neck join close up (left n right and top) and also a view from the head stock back down the neck... that should clear up any miss alignment issues..

[Gavin1393]

Ok, you go away for a few hours and this happens!!

As many of you know "intonation" was my original birth name.....

Using the pickup surround as a reference, there is no way that that bridge is currently in the correct position. A detailed overhead shot will confirm this I am sure. Simply, the difference in string length between high 'e' and low 'e' is usually a max of 2-3mm. This looks far in excess of that! In fact I'd suggest that there is no way the intonation can even be set on this guitar, as the low 'e' looks to be about 5mm or more 'longer' than high 'e'.

Bring on the overhead shot!

Given where the dowels have been placed though does suggest that the bridge itself is not wide enough to have had any chance of fitting in the predrilled holes. Again this could have been avoided with the obligatory pre-build routine.

[wokkaboy]

agreed need an above photo of the whole guitar. Strange that looks like the bridge and tailpiece left posts appear to be in the original position so could be a case of the right post holes being too wide. Agreed with Gav the bridge angle looks too steep (high E too short compared to low E)
Really need the owner of the LP to confirm if the bridge and tailpiece didn't fit with the original bush hole positions.

[adam]

The customer has sent some more photos as requested by your responses. I'm thinking he might need to get in a bit closer and under better lighting, but can you guys get a sense for what might be going on from these pics?


http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cfx5e-photo-1.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ng813-photo-2.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/k73l1-photo-3.JPG

[adam]

Some better photos.


http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/uk332-photo-1.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/yhyy6-photo-2.JPG
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/k7k7h-photo-3.JPG

[Analyst69]

The strings still don't appear to be lining up over the pickup posts, particularly in the south. This is likely to be the result of the bridge being relocated.

As I suggested before, I suspect the bridge and pickups all lined up in their original position, which just leaves the neck route or positioning. I actually think it is still hard to tell if it is a routing or gluing issue without seeing more shots around the actually neck join (particularly on the low E side, where, a mis-glued neck would be more obvious due to a gap at the top of the body, possibly a shot from behind the neck join looking down the neck over the join would help?..should be well-lit too).

If it were mis-glued, it would have been better to dissolve the glue (I know a crappy job, but I've seen it done) and re-position the neck, than to move the bridge.

Cheers

Darren

[Gavin1393]

That saddle isnt even close....in terms of scale length!

I know we are all assuming this but thought I'd ask. These are the original supplied bridge and tail piece that has been used?

[AJ]

TO me, the neck appears to be lined up on the lower side (short rout), not the longer side of the rout - hence a larger gap along the 1st string to fret board. Also as Gavin said. Maybe bite the bullet Adam and get him to send it back and replace the kit. whilst I'm here.. do any of you guys have a solid tail bridge that has a string spacing of 50mm to a max of 52.. can swap a brand new solid tail bridge that is 54mm string spacing?

[Nathsim]

Hi guys here are some preconstruction pics where it is clearly gis able that the holes are not in the correct place for both bridge and tail
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/hl4c9-image.jpg
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/uo1ks-image.jpg

[Nathsim]

Visable (type o )

[AJ]

that neck rout appears to be off center line to me,also the holes dont appear to centered there either.

[wokkaboy]

here's a similar photo of my LP-1 with a similar dark stain, it's hard to tell as the photo angles are slightly different but the post holes don't look too different.
The question I have for Nathsim is did the supplied bridge and tailpiece fit over the bush posts ?
I think the neck route looks ok, they are off centre as the fingerboard hangs over the heel on the right side. I can see the bush holes to be in a slightly different position to mine, the bush holes don't appear to be perfectly centred but the bridge pup route may be in the wrong position too to give this effect.
http://www.pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/e7631-2013-11-17-15.06.23.jpg

[siziemm]

I have followed the debate, but looking at the photos it seems to be more likely that the bridge holes were simply not drilled far enough apart.
This is a problem that I am currently also experiencing in a minor kind of way, on my EX1 build, however not to anything like the extent here - my situation is that I can't get the bridge on comfortably with the posts anything like fully down. Now it might be, when I come to set up the action this won't be much of an issue - also it would seem that one of the posts is perhaps slightly under machined as it is actually a very stiff fit when placed inside the bridge mounting hole. Perhaps a little judicious filing down of the post might solve the issue (and I am only talking fractions of a mm).
In my inexperience, I was guilty of not fitting the posts into the unpainted body to check this out at the beginning - was worried about being able to get them out again - but it's all a learning curve, which is one of my main reasons for having bought the kit in the first place. Any advice on my situation?

[WeirdBits]

Is the tight fit due to the spacing of the actual post bushings, an outward angle on the posts, a bent post shaft, or (as you mentioned machining) is it an overly thick post top on one side or a narrow hole on the bridge, or a combination of several things?

[wokkaboy]

Simon, might be easier if you can please post some photos to clear up what's causing the issues. Without the bridge on see if the posts will screw all the way into the bushes.
As Scott says the issue could be caused by misaligned posts or if the distance between posts are 1mm out makes it difficult to place the bridge over.
Also unscrew the posts all the way out of the bushes and see if both posts will freely fit inside the bridge holes.

[siziemm]

Thanks to both of you.
Will take some photos and post them to see if that helps.