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lawry
25-10-2013, 04:36 AM
Hi Guys,
Just started my second build, a Jagmaster with a custom deep green Wudtone colour (many thanks to DB for mixing it). I put the bits together and all seemed sweet except for a minor problem with the neck heel and body route. The neck heel has a slight curve whereas the route and scratch plate are flat. No biggie I'm told by Guru DB, just shape one or the other to fit.

I do have another problem though, After spending about 3 hours sanding the body I was using some steel wool when it caught a bit of feathered grain and tore out a fibre of wood. It is about 5mm long, 1mm wide and 1-2 mm deep. It is too deep to sand down without creating a hollow. Anyone got any suggestions? Please!

Oh yeah... The name Matriarch is in honour of my grandmother who is 101 years old and still as sharp as a tack. It was her who bought me my first guitar about 45 years ago and encouraged me musically through my entire life. This seemed like a nice way to say thanks.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/rlt9a-image.jpg]

lawry
25-10-2013, 04:42 AM
Can't seem to get the picture of the damaged bit to upload.

lawry
25-10-2013, 04:47 AM
Aha. Got it!

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/4385r-image.jpg

wokkaboy
25-10-2013, 05:01 AM
Lawry, have you still got the fibre piece of wood that came out ? you could put a tiny bit of glue in the hole and glue the piece, but more than likely you will need a small amount of filler. Is it on the back or front face of the body ?
Most people on the forum recommend timbermate filler, I've not used it so someone that has used it may know more about it

SIMpleONe89
25-10-2013, 05:09 AM
Yes timbermate is awesome! You can't go wrong with it.

However, choose the timbermate colour that is closest to the wood because they will definitely absorb stains differently.

lawry
25-10-2013, 05:34 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. Man, you're quick off the mark. Unfortunately I don't have the bit that came out, so filler it will have to be. I thought that would be the case but I had no idea which type is the best to use. Looks like a trip to Bunnings tomorrow. Oh yeah, the mark is on the back, which is a bit of a bummer really because the front has so much scratch plate that it would likely have been covered. Still... Shit happens.
Cheers.

SIMpleONe89
25-10-2013, 05:41 AM
http://www.timbermate.com.au/products/Timbermate+WaterBased+Wood+Filler.aspx

It's a really amazing, innovative product. You should buy the smallest one that they have, because these things last for a very long time!

wokkaboy
25-10-2013, 05:46 AM
Lawry could have been worse if the hole was on the front not hidden under the scratchplate, but you should be able to stain over the timbermate and no one but yourself will know there 'was' a hole there in the first place.
One word of warning mentioning the big green shop that starts with 'B' will get you 30 minutes in DB's naughty corner !
Good luck and post some pics once you have done the repair, one day I'll need to fill a hole and want to see how wudtone looks over it.

Scott J.
25-10-2013, 06:18 AM
Hi Lawry ... that's certainly a great way to pay homage to someone who's provided with such musical influences.

Serious bummer about the "tear out" on the body! (its the "little things" like that inspired the "brand" I put on my builds ... Pharquew! :D)

As you no longer have the "missing piece" (another bummer),I'd be considering two options (though there's probably a number of others worth considering) ...

Option 1. Fill (carefully) and sand:
A good quality filler like Timbermate is very useful but you'll face two problems with it (or any filler) ... 1. matching the filler colour to the timber colour and ... 2.(the most telling) getting the same performance (colour finish) with the filler under the Wudtone colour as you're going to get with the timber itself ... quite often there'll be some variance between how the timber takes the colour up and how the filler takes the colour up (just how much variance depends on a whole lot of factors but it can range from "unnoticeably minimal" to standing out like the proverbial "dog's b*lls")

In this situation instead of store-bought filler you might consider the old cabinetmakers trick of mixing you own filler from the sawdust you're creating from the timber itself (so you'll get exactly the same timber colour) and mixing it with a little glue ... however to ensure you get the same colour performance you must NOT use a plastic-based glue (so don't use anything like PVA/Aquadhere or similar products) ... Tite-bond might work, I'm not certain (though I'd be suspicious until you've tested it) but certainly a traditional "hide" glue like rabbit-skin glue or cow-hide glue will give the colour-performance "take-up" to minimise any noticeable difference ... but you'll need to work quickly as hide-glues set pretty quickly (but they can be easily re-juvenated by just re-heating) ... an old-time technique that works really well (have a play around with it before you try it just to get the hang of how it works). If you don't want to mix and heat your own (and risk being banished from the house because of the smell) hide-glues can be brought pre-mixed from decent hardware/cabinetmakers suppliers (probably not Bunnings, but you never know).

Option 2. Steaming - this was trick shown to me by an old gunsmith that he used to use to bring out the dings and dints in gunstocks with out risking modifying/changing the "shape" of the stock by sanding out the dings/dints(saving him a lot of work). Get a fairly damp cloth and a steam iron, place the cloth over the effected area and then applying the iron to the cloth - a good steaming of the area will cause the timber grain to expand and raise - though you might need to hit it a few times. Admittedly this is a technique best used for dings and dents where the timber is already there and has just been compressed but it might work for a small tear-out (where the timber is actually missing) depending on the timber ... if it does work you'll need to be extra careful when your sanding back over the area so as not to push the "raised" timber back down again - tho once its had several coats of cured top finish/varnish over it should be quite stable/strong enough.

At least with option 2 if it works you have an easy win without risk and if it doesn't then nothings changed and you can still proceed with the filler.

Of course, in such a situation as you're currently in, the smartest move is to seek the wisdom of the guru ...

... DB are you there? :D

Humphrey
25-10-2013, 06:42 AM
Hi.
Good old Granny. What a nice thought from you.
I'm not a guitar maker or repairer but I have a mate who used to have a workshop behind Sydney Set Up and the old Jackson's Rare Guitars ( JRG now gone of course )in Annandale. Anyway, he mixed body wood dust with the glue product and then filled the trench. And he used to steam the wood too but he was very very very skilfull. Me ? I would fill and sand back. With the green you have chosen and the fact it is on the back, you will be fine.
On the lighter side, have considered doing a full relic job on it !!!! Only joking.

lawry
25-10-2013, 08:09 AM
Wow. Advice, warnings and humour coming in left right and centre. I love it. Can't believe how much assistance is freely given in these forums (or is it fora?).
The hole is quite small and on the back so won't be blatantly obvious to anyone except me. Consequently I think I may just fill and sand unless DB pops up and admonishes me. As for The B store, is there a problem with going there? Unless I am mistaken, they originated in WA, so the sandgropers should be encouraging people to go there to increase their shareholder dividends ;-). Thanks to all for the responses.

gavinturner
25-10-2013, 10:33 AM
Hi Lawry.

Great kit! Have loved this one from afar myself for quite some time. Your colour choice is perfect!

On the tear out, for my 2 cents, I would definitely go with Timbermate, fill, sand, stain, forget. If you pick a neutral colour eg. Maple or lighter, you will hardly see it under the colour. It's a great product and so easy to work with. Even if the fill is slightly detectable due to different takeup of the dye, it's one of those issues that will ultimately bring you and the guitar closer together (awww shucks).

cheers,
Gavin.

Brendan
25-10-2013, 10:53 AM
Little tearout like that should barely be noticable once you stain if it's filled with a light Timbermate. DB has recommended sanding the body a bit to build up some sandings, then mixing that in with the Timbermate as you're applying to make the colour blend as accurate as possible.

At the risk of spending some time in the naughty corner (I'm due a round there soon anyway :)) there's nothing wrong with the B store, but there is with some of their products. Generally their stuff is for home handyman (and woman) type activities. I guess here we're talking something like detailed woodworking in terms of aiming for accuracy and quality in output. Therefore many will recommend other sources for things like glue, sandpaper and the like. You'll also get better understanding and service from a woodworking store - nothing like the blank look you get from someone from Bunnings when you bring in an obscure tool and then help them to find it in their own store. Not having a go at those that work at Bunnings, but it's like the difference between a good, classically trained butcher and a shelf stacker in the supermarket - a butcher will tell you what the cut is, how to cook it and how to get the best out of the cut of meat - the shelf stacker will tell you what aisle it's on.

That said - timbermate is timbermate. Bunnings sell it just the same as Carbatec / proper woodworking stores. What they don't sell is Titebond (glue that's stronger than timber as opposed to Aquadhere, which someone on the forum has used and their neck started to part ways with the body). Woodworking stores sell better sandpaper, etc, etc, etc, but you also pay a premium for it. Guess it comes down to what you're willing to trade off ($ vs quality), how far you're willing to go and how far it is to a decent woodworking store...

lawry
25-10-2013, 11:34 AM
OK. I can see where you are all pointing me and that is cool. I'll get some timbermate from the B store but will be wary of other products without expert advice. I can live with that. In fact, I am more than happy to take this type of advice because my expertise is in electronics, not wood. So once again, thanks to all.

There is one other thing, if I get sent to the naughty corner with everyone else who thinks they are due, I should learn heaps!

Gavin1393
25-10-2013, 12:13 PM
I'd agree with Scott

Best way to fix this is to get out some Sandpaper and sand some particles from the body and then mix these particles with some wood glue, preferably, Titebond.
Steaming ONLY works with dents and dings.....simply because the wood is compressed at the time and needs to be released through steaming to 'pop' back into its original position.
Make sure there are enough shavings/particles to fill the gouge completely.

lawry
25-10-2013, 08:20 PM
Thanks for jumping into this thread Gavin. I'm not sure where I might get some Titebond but I have some left over PB neck glue from my previous build. Would that be ok?

Gavin1393
25-10-2013, 10:12 PM
Masters and Carbatec sell it ....Carbatec sell online too!

lawry
25-10-2013, 11:47 PM
Excellent. We have just had a Masters open in our city about 4 weeks ago. I have looked at their online catalogue and there are four types of Titebond; Original, Original ultimate, Type II Premium and type III Ultimate. Which is the one you recommend? I'm so confused, maybe I should just make some glue up from flour and water. It always worked at school.

lawry
26-10-2013, 02:08 AM
Haven't been out to buy Titebond or Timbermate yet but have shaped the headstock. The template for the two smaller arcs is from a shot glass and the larger arc's template is from a microwave plate cover. Needs must!

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/z5ov9-image.jpg

WeirdBits
26-10-2013, 03:27 AM
Misuse of a shot glass could be grounds for a trip to the naughty corner... but does this qualify as misuse, abuse or good use?

lawry
26-10-2013, 03:51 AM
I filled it, downed it and then used it. Is that OK?

Gavin1393
26-10-2013, 04:28 AM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from lawry on October 25, 2013, 08:47
Excellent. We have just had a Masters open in our city about 4 weeks ago. I have looked at their online catalogue and there are four types of Titebond; Original, Original ultimate, Type II Premium and type III Ultimate. Which is the one you recommend? I'm so confused, maybe I should just make some glue up from flour and water. It always worked at school.

Original.....

lawry
26-10-2013, 07:13 AM
The Titebond has been purchased and some sandings mixed with a drop. I've put a dollop into the divot and will sand it down tomorrow. Meanwhile, the neck has had its first coat of amber. Also, love the grain on the front of the headstock. I hope it shows through.


http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/81r11-image.jpg
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/od77e-image.jpg

lawry
27-10-2013, 03:02 AM
Well, the Titebond and shavings trick worked pretty well. Thanks to all who offered advice! So... I've sanded back the body and put on the first deep coat of a custom green (a bit like bottle green) that DB made up for me. I'm already loving how it looks so it will only get better with more coats and the gloss. I really hate waiting this 48 hours stuff. I just wanna keep going /-)


http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/34sl6-image.jpg

jase
27-10-2013, 07:23 AM
Gday Lawry. Looks fantastic. Great body shape and great color choice. Ill be keeping a close eye on this one.

stan
27-10-2013, 12:22 PM
the green looks good!

gavinturner
27-10-2013, 08:48 PM
Looking great lawry. Can't see the patch in the photo at all. The colour looks awesome - just perfect for this model guitar. I also like your headstock shape! Awesome work. Really interested to see her coming together.

Cheers,
Gavin.

lawry
28-10-2013, 04:13 AM
The patch has done a pretty good job and although it is still noticeable to me I can live with it.
I've just put the second coat of Vintage Amber on the neck. Man, the way the light shines on it while it's still wet gives it so much depth. I really hope the gloss coats give it the same effect! Still have to wait another 24 hours before I can do the second coat on the body. It's really deceptive up here in Mackay with our 30 degree days because you'd swear it was dry.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/erg60-image.jpg

maxaxe
28-10-2013, 11:06 AM
Coool headstock design - really nicely balanced shape IMO.
Did that lovely swirly woodgrain come through on the front?
Photo please . . .

Tim
28-10-2013, 11:43 AM
its looking good Lawry,
and yes photos of the front please

lawry
31-10-2013, 06:08 AM
Bit of an update. I've been a bit crook for the last few days so haven't done much. BUT... yesterday I applied the second coat of deep colour to the body and vintage amber to the neck. The body still has another 24 hours to go before I can add the third coat but it is looking great. The colour is evening itself out and the repaired divot is hidden much better. And as requested, here is a pic of the front of the headstock. A lot of the swirliness (is that a word?) of the grain has been lost but it still looks cool. So far, I'm 'right chuffed'!
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/3o54p-image.jpg
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/z5yub-image.jpg
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/10r76-image.jpg

jase
31-10-2013, 06:28 AM
Looking awesome. Love the color. Looking at that should make you feel better.

lawry
31-10-2013, 09:38 AM
Hey Jase. Yeah, I do feel better. I was heartbroken when the grain ripped, but with the awesome support from this community I am at a stage where I am confident with the how the build is coming together. Got to say thanks again to all who offered advice.

lawry
31-10-2013, 09:42 AM
Found a font I like for the Matriarch scratchplate. I'm going to see if a local trophy engraver can carve it with their CNC machine.
The photo's a bit grainy cos it was taken late at night with the iPad.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/7dvk2-image.jpg

gavinturner
31-10-2013, 11:04 AM
Wow, the build is looking really sweet Lawry. Love it.

Cheers,
Gavin.

Tim
31-10-2013, 12:03 PM
Its looking good Lawry

lawry
02-11-2013, 10:54 PM
It's the weekend. Hurrah! Time to put some more time into the build. However, I have a bit if a problem (again, I hear you sigh). Actually, there are two. I put the first top coat on the neck a few days ago and during the night a front went through with strong winds. This caused a bit of dust to land on the headstock next to the decal and when I rubbed it with my finger it left a bit of a gap. The other problem is that I got a run that I didn't see while the coat was being applied. So my obvious question is 'what is the best way to attack these problems'? Thanks for you help guys, I know you won't be able to stop yourselves :-)

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/7yot7-image.jpg
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/44r54-image.jpg

DanMade
03-11-2013, 12:32 AM
You should be able to remove the dust and runs with a bit of steel wool. No biggie really.

I've tried lots of alternative's, but the best alternative to steel wool is steel wool. Micro mesh pad's work great for polishing but there not as effective at removing dust and runs.

BTW. That Emerald Isle looks fantastic.

lawry
03-11-2013, 12:34 AM
Thanks Dan. Must admit that was what I was going to try but if I had been way off the mark I could have made a right stuff up. Thanks for your response.

stan
03-11-2013, 10:25 AM
great work Lawry, it really looks cool. Love the headstock logo/print

lawry
14-11-2013, 07:33 AM
Time for an update. There have been a few things happening behind the scenes here so haven't done much ( lotsa gigs, a couple if minor stuff-ups, and waiting on bits).
So, the gloss top coat bottle of goo has arrived so I will get into that this weekend,
I have sent away the scratchplate and neck plate to have some engraving done, and
Have just received some roller string trees which I will mount, along with the machine heads, this weekend.

It may all sound a bit boring, but I'm really looking forward to the weekend!

gavinturner
15-11-2013, 09:29 AM
You go for it Lawry! I don't have an active build right now, so all my building is being done vicariously.
Get in there son and describe all the action!! ;)

Cheers,
Gavin.

lawry
15-11-2013, 10:09 AM
Gav, you're a dag. Thanks for the encouragement.

Tim
15-11-2013, 12:20 PM
Another nice build Lawry
and I cant think of any better way of spending a weekend

lawry
17-11-2013, 01:10 AM
It's pretty hot and humid in Mackay at the moment but I've put the first coat of gloss on the body and front of the headstock anyway. So at least I feel like I've done something. I received an email from Labels Extreme yesterday saying the scratchplate and neck plate have been engraved and are on their way back. Hopefully they will turn up in the middle of the week and by then I may have finished all the coatings. That means it will be assembly time next weekend. Woohoo!
The red stuff in the machine head holes are bits of rag to stop any drips going through. I was caught by that once. Won't happen again.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/94682-image.jpg
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/32d6x-image.jpg

wokkaboy
17-11-2013, 02:04 AM
looking excellent Lawry, nice gloss on the body and the headstock is nicely coloured and shaped, love the logo too !

robin
17-11-2013, 02:28 AM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from lawry on November 13, 2013, 16:33

It may all sound a bit boring, but I'm really looking forward to the weekend!

Hey Lawry, doesn't sound boring at all. It sounds like a ripper weekend to me.

rob

lawry
23-11-2013, 05:43 AM
Right!
Had a day off work today (RDO, not a sickie) so was able to do lots on the guitar. With luck I will have it finished (including action, intonation, relief, etc.) this weekend. We'll see - the band has a gig tonight and Saturday so that may slow me down a bit. Anyway, here are the latest stages...

Shielding into the electronics cavity and tremolo bridge installed.
Machine heads installed.
Neck attached and scratchplate/pups/controls wired and installed.

I used an ESP humbucker that I had given to me. It is pretty hot and has a great growly sound.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/bwl3f-image.jpg
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1r31z-image.jpg
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/790ur-image.jpg

lawry
23-11-2013, 05:49 AM
Last pic for the day.
Finished all the final odds and sods (strap buttons, string trees, tremolo spring cavity cover, etc.) then strung her up for a play. It definitely needs adjusting but it was sooo sweet to hear it come to life. I'll let the strings sit for a day or so and let the tension settle. Come Sunday I should be able to do some tweaking. Watch this space!
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ugyn9-image.jpg

wokkaboy
23-11-2013, 06:01 AM
Looks sensational Lawry, well done, you can see your finish is improving with each build and love the mods. Is that a custom bridge ? I haven't built one of these models but will have to add it to my want list !
Colour matches the pickguard so well and love the neck/headstock colour blend. Keep up the good work and good luck with the gigs tonight and Saturday night. Look forward to a sound demo video once its all set up

AJ
23-11-2013, 06:26 AM
looks brilliant Lawry

lawry
23-11-2013, 06:58 AM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from wokkaboy on November 22, 2013, 15:01
Looks sensational Lawry, well done, you can see your finish is improving with each build and love the mods. Is that a custom bridge ? I haven't built one of these models but will have to add it to my want list !
Colour matches the pickguard so well and love the neck/headstock colour blend. Keep up the good work and good luck with the gigs tonight and Saturday night. Look forward to a sound demo video once its all set up

Hey Wokka. Thanks for the post!
The bridge came with the kit but it's a bit 'basic'. I think I may replace it with something more substantial in the future. One thing that surprised me about this axe was how heavy it is. It's only basswood but it has some weight to it. All the better for sustain, I hope. I guess it does have a rather large body compared to my other guitars so maybe I'm just being a sook.

wokkaboy
23-11-2013, 07:04 AM
no worries Lawry, I've never felt the weight of a JM guitar so can't comment. Pick up an old Les Paul guitar Lawry and that redefines heavy !
The JM is probably heavier than guitars you have built and played in the past but agree a heavy guitar should give a better sustain

gavinturner
23-11-2013, 08:49 AM
Drool. God damn Lawry that looks amazing. You've done a great job and colour choice is perfect! So often on this forum I find myself looking at other people's guitars and basically wanting to build the exact same guitar for my own collection. Your's has definitely made the short list - I want one bad!

Cheers,
Gav.

WeirdBits
23-11-2013, 10:20 AM
Looks great Lawry, very nice job. Can't wait for your next demo video.

gavinturner
30-11-2013, 04:25 AM
Just a saw your GOTM post Lawry. You've hit it out of the park. Absolutely wonderful job. One of the best looking guitars I've ever seen.
Congrats.

Cheers,
Gav.

stan
30-11-2013, 08:17 AM
Top effort Lawry, that's a great looking axe

lawry
30-11-2013, 10:34 AM
Thanks guys. Your comments are quite humbling considering the brilliant works of art I see posted in these forums. I can certainly see how it can become an addiction.

Andyport
30-11-2013, 07:02 PM
Really excellent job Lawry, well done...and such a lovely tribute.
Hope you also do a video of this one. I'm thinking that the Jazzmaster might be my next build, so I'm dead keen to hear the different combinations from those 3 pups.
Cheers
Andy

sulistbu
01-05-2015, 09:34 PM
Damn! Lawry that is nice built.

Budi.

PS
And Thanks Gavin Turner for sending the link.

Jeff Sheridan
02-05-2015, 04:32 AM
Beautiful and classy, a good tribute to your musical influence!