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robin
26-05-2013, 03:01 AM
Well, I’ve started on my next build, the beautiful “Tele Thinline”.

I must admit I was a tad disappointed when I inspected the kit, there were some bad glue stains and plastic filler to spoil my day. But undeterred I decided to accept the challenge, hoping that the rewards would be that much sweeter.

To remove the glue I have tried every method suggested here, sanding, acetone, sanding, those little metal brushes and sanding, but it seems that the glue has gone so deep that I just could not remove the glue without damaging the wood. There was also a nasty glue stain that covered about a third of the first fret where the nut had been glued in, and I had decided that there was no way to combat that without risking severe damage to the maple fretboard. As for removing the plastic filler and replacing it with a colour matched Timbermate concoction, failed on that one too. No matter what I tried I could not get a good colour match with the Timbermate.

So once again, it was decision time. Wudtone was now not an option because of the glue that remained and the butt ugly Timbermate, and I presumed that staining would be a similarly disaster. The easiest solution was to paint it, but I had decided when I first started building these kits that my guitars would feature the beauty of the wood. So painting was an absolute last resort, an admission of defeat.

Seeing I’d had great success with Tru-Oil on the neck of my “Strat” (everybody who picks it up just raves about the slick finish) and I had wanted to try doing a body in Tru-Oil so I figured that the “Tele” would make a great first candidate. I figured that I had nothing to lose by trying it.

So I stopped attacking the glue, just used plain untinted Timbermate to fill the holes and decided to embrace the uniqueness of my guitar. I had started the process of building my natural woodgrain “Tele”.

I had sanded, poked, dug, filled and generally mutilated the body for over 10 hours, by now taking it to a satin, baby bum smooth, 600 grit finish. I have already applied 18 coats of Tru-Oil to the body but it will not give me the gloss finish I am looking for. As a bit of a novice it’s not unexpected, so I will do a little more research on the internet while I wait for those coats cure. Hopefully I will be able to post some pics of the finish when I have had a bit more success.

Already I have grown an affection for this guitar, and although it has fought me all the way I am determined to spend as much time as it takes to get it right. I have a vague feeling that this might end up being one of my favourite guitars. Like the little runt of the litter that you end up loving. Not because it’s beautiful, but because it isn’t.

I’ll just include a few before shots for now, so hopefully the after shots will show how this ugly duckling has turned into a graceful ugly swan.

Cheers
rob

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/zt7vn-001-3.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/y3nw2-036.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/b0dg7-008.JPG

robin
26-05-2013, 03:03 AM
Just a couple more "before" shots
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/vrt2z-033.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ixo46-007.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/ev4uf-035.JPG

keloooe
26-05-2013, 03:27 AM
Trying to follow in Scott's footsteps are ya?????

robin
26-05-2013, 03:53 AM
Quote from keloooe on May 25, 2013, 12:27
Trying to follow in Scott's footsteps are ya?????

Haha, nothing that ambitious Callum. I have neither the patience nor the skill to match Scott.

rob

Gavin1393
26-05-2013, 05:08 AM
Hi Robin

I have to admire your perseverence. What are you doing about the glue stain on the fretboard?

Brendan
26-05-2013, 05:39 AM
Robin - looks like you've got a doozy - I agree - the more work, the more you'll probably love it...

robin
26-05-2013, 05:46 AM
Quote from Gavin1393 on May 25, 2013, 14:08
Hi Robin

I have to admire your perseverence. What are you doing about the glue stain on the fretboard?

Perserverance, stupidity, ...... Tomato, potato. ;)

Not much I can do about it Gav. Too late now anyway, I've given the fretboard about a dozen coats of Tru-Oil and it's enhanced the stain and brought it out a treat. It's made a real feature of it lol.

It's not like it affects the value, it's never going to be sold. Admittedly it will be flawed, but like my Strat, it will be made for playing. Anyway, now I'll always be able to pick it out in a crowd.

Just for future reference, was there anything I could have done?

Cheers
rob

robin
26-05-2013, 05:52 AM
Quote from Brendan on May 25, 2013, 14:39
Robin - looks like you've got a doozy - I agree - the more work, the more you'll probably love it...


Absolutely Brendan, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. With all it's faults I'm starting to love it already.

rob

WeirdBits
26-05-2013, 10:32 AM
Wow, Rob, I can certainly sympathise. Looks like you really have your work cut out for you, but that makes the end result all that much sweeter.


Quote from robin on May 25, 2013, 12:53
[...] I have neither the patience nor the skill to match [...]

You seem to be doing ok on both. For me, I have the former (sometimes), but the latter is often sadly lacking. However, I think it's safe to say we both share a certain level of tenacity. Good luck with the build.

robin
26-05-2013, 11:10 AM
Quote from robin on May 25, 2013, 12:53
[...] I have neither the patience nor the skill to match [...]


You seem to be doing ok on both. For me, I have the former (sometimes), but the latter is often sadly lacking. However, I think it's safe to say we both share a certain level of tenacity. Good luck with the build.


Haha, thanks Scott, but unlike you I have basically given up trying to repair the problems. They are far beyond my meagre talents, and tenacity alone isn't going to do it. The problem is my pigheadedness to refuse to use paint.

But that's OK because for some twisted reason this guitar is already special to me. Luckily the problems are mainly on the sides but the top is OK. and as I have already said how it looks is irrelevant as it will never be for sale.

Sanding down to 600 grit I was actually able to polish the area around the worst of the glue stains and, unlike Wudtone, it has blended in a little with the Tru-Oil. If I can get the gloss I'm after with the oil it might hide it a bit more.

Thanks for the encouragement mate.

rob

robin
04-06-2013, 12:15 PM
Well, I have finally finished the body and neck with Tru-Oil.

Unfortunately in my ignorance of how to get a good finish I ended up applying 18 coats of Oil. I know where I went wrong so next time I'm hoping to be able to get a similar result with about half as many coats. Live and learn.

Because I sanded down to 600 grit, I was able to polish the wood around the worst of the glue stains and the Oil has blended in quite nicely around the horn cutout and in the right light the glue almost looks like a grain feature. The ugly knot holes I just filled with plain Timbermate, and as the worst of these is in the lap contour it will hardly be seen any way.

As mentioned before, I didn’t touch the glue on the fretboard as any sanding or tampering with that could have been a disaster, but again the Oil has tempered it a bit, but unfortunately not as much as the sanded areas. Although noticeable it is yet just another character trait of my beautiful, but flawed Tele Thinline.

All in all, I’m happy with the progress so far, final assembly will start soon, so fingers crossed.

I’ve included some photos of the finished body in the same order as the original photos posted above to give a before and after comparison.

rob

1. Fretboard Glue
2. Horn Cutout Glue
3. Output repair and glue



http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/6a9e6-005-3.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/q38jr-002-5.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/zic64-018.JPG

robin
04-06-2013, 12:17 PM
and a few more

1. Lap Contour glue and filler
2. Back filler
3. The top finish
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/sxztj-009.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/17204-011.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/43840-006-3.JPG

Brendan
04-06-2013, 12:32 PM
Robin - love it - even with something that has a few knots and character traits to it, you've come up with something beautiful. You going to share the lowdown on how to apply tru oil, so when we give it a go we don't end up with 18 coats?

Gavin1393
04-06-2013, 01:00 PM
Where did you get the Tru-oil? Looks beautiful mate! Lucky for me your finished tele probably wont make it to GOTM as it's likely to be hi-jacked on its way..... ;)

keloooe
04-06-2013, 09:04 PM
hahah Gav, poor DB got his hijacked in March, but at least Adam loves it!!!

robin
04-06-2013, 11:10 PM
Quote from Brendan on June 3, 2013, 21:32
Robin - love it - even with something that has a few knots and character traits to it, you've come up with something beautiful. You going to share the lowdown on how to apply tru oil, so when we give it a go we don't end up with 18 coats?

Hi Brendan,

FIRST A CAVEAT. I am a complete novice and have only used Tru-Oil once before and that was on the neck of my first guitar kit. So be warned, free advice is sometimes worth exactly what you paid for it.

I researched everything I could find on the Net before starting this project and it would appear that everybody ends up using it the way that suits them. Its very easy to work with, you just have to find a way that works for you.

There are some absolutely stunning examples on the net, I tried their methods but they just didn't work for me.

So I am still on a learning curve so take EVERYTHING I say VERY cautiously.

1. Surface preparation is everything. I think I sanded too fine, but I went through the grades up to 600 grit. Every blemish, dent or mark will be shown up by Tru-Oil. So, take DB's mantra on sanding and double it! I THINK finer sanding is OK with TO as it is not a stain and doesn't seem to need any "bite" in the wood.

2. I THINK I should have pore filled first. I have absolutely no experience with pore fillers, so I gave it a miss, but it can be done with TO.

3. I started by tying to apply the TO too thick with my fingers. After several coats I ended up applying it with small (approx. 60x60mm) pieces of cotton T-shirt material. One of the quotes I remember reading was "am I wiping it on, or rubbing it off". That's how thin the coats should be.

4. If the weather is good you can apply 3 coats of TO a day. I only lightly sanded at the beginning of each day, so every 3rd coat. After about a dozen coats I started fine sanding with 1000 for a day, 1500 the next and finally 2000. I THINK I should have started the fine sanding earlier, maybe after 4 or 5 coats.

5. After the 18th coat and still not getting the finish that the pros were getting, I decided it was pointless just adding more coats. I had to try something new.

LIGHTBULB MOMENT!!!

6. I needed a cutting compound! What did I have handy? Brasso. I have no idea what that stuff will do to the TO finish over time, SO BE WARNED. I trialled it on a small area to be covered by the Scratch Plate, and instant success.

7. I had some swirl marks left after the Brasso, so what's a cutting compound that's finer than Brasso I hear you say? That's easy, Silvo. :D Again, no idea what that will do to the TO over time, but it removed the swirl marks.

And that's about it. Easy, Peazy.

Hopefully the next time I use TO I will refine my technique a bit and get a better result, but for a first time effort I'm pretty happy.

Hope this helps,

rob

My secret potion:


http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2am32-012-2.JPG

robin
04-06-2013, 11:23 PM
Quote from Gavin1393 on June 3, 2013, 22:00
Where did you get the Tru-oil? Looks beautiful mate! Lucky for me your finished tele probably wont make it to GOTM as it's likely to be hi-jacked on its way..... ;)


Hi Gav,

Tru-Oil is a gun stock oil. I tried a few gun shops in Brisbane but they only had small bottles, and I wasn't too sure how much I needed so looked on eBay.

I think it would be cheaper to buy it locally, but the cheapest I could find on fleaBay was a place called Magnum Sports, I think they are in NSW. I bought an 8oz (??ml) bottle. I have done 2 necks and now 1 body and still have a some left in the bottle. If I can cut down on my OCD'ish 18 coats I might be able to get another guitar out of it.

rob

Brendan
05-06-2013, 12:09 AM
Gav - there's a gun shop out near your mates @ Joondalup Music - round the other side of Winton Ave.

Robin - bad news - don't have brasso - good news I do have Silvo! What's the surface like - I'm assuming its dry and doesn't soak into whatever you're wearing?

As for the cost of the advice - this is all a learning curve - and the best way to learn is through mistakes and if I can save time / money learning from others' then I'm ahead, so thanks for the advice - the guitar does pop!

robin
05-06-2013, 04:35 AM
Quote from Brendan on June 4, 2013, 09:09
Gav - there's a gun shop out near your mates @ Joondalup Music - round the other side of Winton Ave.

Robin - bad news - don't have brasso - good news I do have Silvo! What's the surface like - I'm assuming its dry and doesn't soak into whatever you're wearing?

As for the cost of the advice - this is all a learning curve - and the best way to learn is through mistakes and if I can save time / money learning from others' then I'm ahead, so thanks for the advice - the guitar does pop!

Brendan, I read a good one the other day "Learn from other peoples mistakes, you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself."

I think Tru-Oil is called a wipe on vanish. So it obviously dries to a hard(ish) dry varnish like finish. It is touch dry within about 30 minutes or so. The instructions on the bottle say that it is dry enough to put on next coat in about 2 to 3 hours. So I start early in th emorning, second coat just before lunch and third coat late afternoon.

My guess about the hardness of the finish would put it somewhere between Wudtone and a store bought guitar, whatever finish that is. So it's not going to take too many hard knocks, but it feels pretty durable. Probably not the best finish for a hard working band unless "relic" is your style.

I didn't want to go too savage with a cutting compound so I tried Silvo first but it was not course enough to gloss the finish. So then I tried Brasso, magic. The Silvo came in very handy as a swirl remover.

My local Woolworths up here in Brissie stocks both Brasso and Silvo. Cheap as. But as we are usually about 100 years and 1 hour behind you southerners for half the year they may not stock it down there. ;)

rob

Brendan
05-06-2013, 09:52 AM
Yes, in WA, we are worried that if we have daylight savings, we'll confuse the cows, fade the curtains and overall get less time to our families :? ...

BTW - thanks for that - great blow by blow... :P

Saw a description of Rickenbackers that describes how they have gloss fretboards - this looks like just the thing.

robin
19-06-2013, 12:41 AM
Well, after much love she's finally finished.

As usual for me, final assembly was a bit of a nightmare but finally sorted. All things considered I am quite pleased how she turned out.

This is only my second guitar, but I am learning more and enjoying the journey more with each build. In fact I get disappointed when its finished. Just got to finish setting her up properly and I can start the next one.

cheers
rob
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/mq0kr-012-3.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/n441q-016-2.JPG
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/cj6p7-008-4.JPG

wokkaboy
19-06-2013, 12:46 AM
looks awesome Rob, well done, the finish looks very slick

robin
19-06-2013, 01:20 AM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from wokkaboy on June 18, 2013, 09:46
looks awesome Rob, well done, the finish looks very slick

Thanks Wokka, I'll have to try and take some better shots. These just don't do it justice.

For someone like me who is more interested in playabilty than appearance, she turned out better than expected.

rob

Gavin1393
19-06-2013, 02:07 AM
What a great result! simply stunning sheen!

keloooe
19-06-2013, 02:29 AM
Rob, that is amazing!!!

Brendan
19-06-2013, 04:13 AM
Rob,
Even with the issues you encountered, it's come out a beauty!

robin
19-06-2013, 04:45 AM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from Gavin1393 on June 18, 2013, 11:07
What a great result! simply stunning sheen!

Thanks Gav, coming from a professional like yourself I count that as very high praise. Those shots really don't do her justice but I'm pretty naff at taking photos so they are probably the best I can do. IRL if you get the right angle the grain on the back is almost 3D.

Cheers mate
rob

robin
19-06-2013, 04:47 AM
/Quote from keloooe on June 18, 2013, 11:29[/b]
Rob, that is amazing!!!

Thanks Callum, I'm still looking forward to seeing your LP.

rob

robin
19-06-2013, 04:51 AM
Quote from Brendan on June 18, 2013, 13:13[/b]
Rob,
Even with the issues you encountered, it's come out a beauty!

Thanks Brendan, I knew there was a beautiful guitar under all that glue and filler somewhere, it just took time and patience to coax it out. Lol.

Cheers
rob

keloooe
19-06-2013, 04:54 AM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from robin on June 18, 2013, 13:47

/Quote from keloooe on June 18, 2013, 11:29[/b]
Rob, that is amazing!!!

Thanks Callum, I'm still looking forward to seeing your LP.

rob
Hahah, me too Rob, I'm doing some highlights again this week, I'm hoping tonight!!!

maxaxe
19-06-2013, 08:16 AM
Robin - love it - even with something that has a few knots and character traits to it, you've come up with something beautiful.

Second that - what a lovely result.
P.S. True artists are always very critical of their own work.

Q: What is the "Lyndian Guitars" label about?
Not something to do with the Lydian mode?(different spelling)

WeirdBits
19-06-2013, 09:30 AM
The finish has turned out amazing Rob, really great job.

robin
19-06-2013, 09:42 AM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from maxaxe on June 18, 2013, 17:16

Robin - love it - even with something that has a few knots and character traits to it, you've come up with something beautiful.

Second that - what a lovely result.
P.S. True artists are always very critical of their own work.

Q: What is the "Lyndian Guitars" label about?
Not something to do with the Lydian mode?(different spelling)

Thanks Max, I am very pleased how it turned out. Better than I expected in fact.

No, Lyndian has nothing to do with Scale Modes. Lynette Dian was the name of my Beloved wife who passed away last year. So, as I started making guitars as a bit of cheap therapy it seemed only natural to name them after her. So I just shortened it to Lyndian. So every guitar I make bears her name and her memory and is very special to me and needless to say is made with a fair amount of love.

Cheers mate,
rob

robin
19-06-2013, 09:44 AM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from WeirdBits on June 18, 2013, 18:30
The finish has turned out amazing Rob, really great job.



Thanks Scott, really appreciate all the positive feedback.

cheers
rob

dvous
21-06-2013, 09:38 PM
Let's hope you have the protection of the Nullarbor between you and the Tele-napper, because he would just drool to hjave that lovely guitar on one of his wall hangers...

Gavin1393
21-06-2013, 10:44 PM
/<\\/p>[]<\\/p>/Quote from dvous on June 21, 2013, 06:38
Let's hope you have the protection of the Nullarbor between you and the Tele-napper, because he would just drool to hjave that lovely guitar on one of his wall hangers...

DB has just alerted me to the fact that a certain Triumph motorcycle appears to have left the Perth Metro area setting off the perimeter alarms...DB himself has gone into hiding and has asked me to relay the warning! :)

robin
21-06-2013, 10:49 PM
Quote from dvous on June 21, 2013, 06:38
Let's hope you have the protection of the Nullarbor between you and the Tele-napper, because he would just drool to hjave that lovely guitar on one of his wall hangers...

Hahaha Dvous, I think I'm safe, but I think I might look at some security measures just to be sure.

Cheers
rob

robin
21-06-2013, 11:08 PM
Quote from Gavin1393 on June 21, 2013, 07:44

DB has just alerted me to the fact that a certain Triumph motorcycle appears to have left the Perth Metro area setting off the perimeter alarms...DB himself has gone into hiding and has asked me to relay the warning! :)

Thanks for the heads up Gav.

All security systems have been placed on DEFCON 1, and all Drones have been deployed. Queensland is now officially in Lockdown and I have retreated to a corner of the lounge room and I am desperately looking for my "happy place".

rob

keloooe
21-06-2013, 11:32 PM
MELBOURNE AND CENTRAL VICTORIA IS NOW UNDER LOCKDOWN!!!!

sulistbu
01-05-2015, 09:21 PM
Hi Rob,

Very nice finish, well done
How does the sound fare? Is TO friendly to use?
Again thanks for sending me the link.

Cheers
Budi

robin
02-05-2015, 06:27 AM
Thanks Budi. I just realized that this Thread is 2 years old! Wow, how time flies.

Sound-wise? I actually used her at church just a few weeks ago, she still sounds sweet. About a year ago I upgraded the pickups to Tonerider Alnico II Classics to give her a bit more bottom end warmth. As I recall there was not a huge difference between them and the standard pickups. So I am sure you will be happy with the stock ones.

TO is almost fool-proof. I am testimony to that. My big secret is to apply lots of thin coats. Don't be tempted to try and build up the finish with thicker coats. Earlier on in this Thread I said I thought that I could get another guitar out of the bottle of TO. I ended up getting another 3 or 4, including the necks.

As with all wood finishes surface preparation is paramount. If you can see or feel the slightest blemish it needs more sanding, trust me, it will show.

Good luck with your builds, I hope you get as much satisfaction out of them as I did.

cheeers
rob

sulistbu
02-05-2015, 01:39 PM
Hi Rob,

Still waiting for the Oz Post Van, with all the rain we had doubt there will be here on Monday.
Did you remember how many layers of TO did you use?
On my last build I was doing French Polishing on my LP double cut Junior. I took me a while to finish to a good finish (I reckon anyway).
Anyways thx so much for your help.

Budi

robin
02-05-2015, 06:13 PM
Hey Budi, I am pretty sure that it was 18 or 20 coats of Tru Oil. This was my first attempt at TO so I was experimenting a bit. Although 18 or 20 coats sounds a like lot, after about the 3rd or 4th coat I knock each coat back with 000 or 0000 steel wool to get rid of the dust nibs and then from about coat 15 I sand back with wet and dry sand paper between each coat to get a nice smooth finish for the next coat. I usually start sanding with 1000 grit and go through to 2000. So by the time I'm finished I have removed a fair amount of what I have put on.

The final stage is scratch remover and/or swirl remover. I use Brasso because I'm cheap, but I am sure that there are better automotive products around. Just try and steer clear of anything that contains silicone.

Hope the Postie makes it soon. Its like waiting for Christmas isn't it.


cheers
rob

Gregted
03-05-2015, 07:10 AM
Wouldn't have thought of Brasso as light abrasive to final finish. Learning so much on this forum. Looks sweet.