PDA

View Full Version : Hoopers TL-1TH



sfkhooper
12-04-2013, 09:00 PM
Hey all,

Just received my TL-1TH last night. Pretty exciting stuff! Looking forward to getting stuck into the head reshaping on Saturday. Even though this is a Telecaster build, I've decided to go with a Strat shape, which I think looks much better. I'm not set on trying to faithfully reproduce a Fender, because at the end of the day it's simply not a Fender. Also, I've gone with my own stain/lacquer as opposed to the Wudtone options. This is mainly because during the order process I changed my mind about colour and what I wanted was going to be up to a couple of weeks away from being in stock.

http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/o1f3p-552777_10151550935937147_926661131_n.jpg

Gavin1393
12-04-2013, 09:52 PM
Welcome to the forum. You wanted silver didn't you? :)

adam
12-04-2013, 09:52 PM
Hey Hooper, nice choice! This is one of my personal favourite kits. It's funny, we bought a good quantity of these and they just sat in the warehouse for weeks, then all of them sold within the past two weeks and we're now out of stock. I think Dingo Bass's Cherry Flamenco TL-1TH might have inspired the gold rush.

Look forward to seeing how yours turns out Hooper.

Gavin1393
13-04-2013, 01:49 AM
I guess you are out of Cherry Flamenco too then? :(

keloooe
13-04-2013, 02:17 AM
Quote from adam on April 12, 2013, 06:52
Hey Hooper, nice choice! This is one of my personal favourite kits. It's funny, we bought a good quantity of these and they just sat in the warehouse for weeks, then all of them sold within the past two weeks and we're now out of stock. I think Dingo Bass's Cherry Flamenco TL-1TH might have inspired the gold rush.

Look forward to seeing how yours turns out Hooper.
I like the new Thinline kits! They look beautiful, The Bigsby is on my list!

4runner
13-04-2013, 03:45 AM
Hoopers and I work together.... let the build-off begin.

keloooe
13-04-2013, 03:58 AM
So you guys are both PC geniuses....

4runner
13-04-2013, 04:25 AM
Web developers yeah, I wouldn't go as far as genius.

keloooe
13-04-2013, 04:27 AM
All I know is a tiny bit of lua and a tiny bit of Batch...

sfkhooper
14-04-2013, 02:15 AM
Ok, so here's the TL after initial sanding. I have to admit, I was surprised at just how soft Basswood really is. I've been working with wood pretty much my whole life from early high school, and I've never seen anything, other than balsa, this soft. Having said that, it was a joy to work with wood that really responded to subtle variations in sanding technique. I got used to it very quickly and the result is what you see below, smooth as a baby's backside after a through going over with the 220 grit. I'm a little concerned about the wood around the bottom of f-cutout, looks like a knot.

http://i49.tinypic.com/fona5l.jpg

keloooe
14-04-2013, 02:18 AM
Yea, basswood is soft as a baby's butt!!! makes ur hand tingle if you rub it a bit!

adam
14-04-2013, 02:23 AM
Hooper, if you use the "Image" Icon in the icon menu at the top, you need to insert the image URL between the img tags. If you don't have a url, you can post your image on www.imgur.com to get one.

If you just want to post a jpg from your computer, then use the "Choose File" buttons below the text box.

I use Chrome and haven't had any issues.

sfkhooper
14-04-2013, 09:02 PM
Time to shape the headstock. Found a design I like (!) and printed it out. Then I taped it to a newspaper on a page with lots of ink and traced over the outline, transferring the newspaper ink to the back of my design. Next, I cut out the shape with a decent margin and lined the shape up over my headstock. Then I simply rubbed over the design, transferring some of the newspaper ink to the wood. Too easy!

Not sure what everyone else is doing for getting their design onto the headstock, but this is a technique my engineer grandad taught me when I was a kid. I've used it hundreds of times since and it makes stuff like this very easy.

http://i46.tinypic.com/10hvdz7.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/ivel2v.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ykalap.jpg

Can't find my jigsaw. It's in a box somewhere. Going to grab my father-in-laws later in the day, so onto staining the body in the meantime.

sfkhooper
14-04-2013, 09:24 PM
Setup and ready to stain. I'm using a Feast Watson spirit-based stain. I like spirit stains because they soak deep into the wood and have quick recoat times.
http://i47.tinypic.com/nwlszo.jpg

After applying the first coat to the body, my worst fears were confirmed. There was a knotty bit of wood around the f-cutout that hasn't taken the stain. Pretty disappointing really but I'm learning to live with it. The staining process went extremey well aside from this. The basswood really drank up the stain. I kept going over the entire surface until I was satisfied the wood's thirst was quenched to avoid patchy areas.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2ur2q1t.jpg

Pretty happy with the back. Ths is actually after the second application, one hour after the first. Dutifully drying, ready for first lacquering tomorrow.
http://i49.tinypic.com/33a5csi.jpg

4runner
14-04-2013, 10:57 PM
Looks awesome dude.

GlennGP
14-04-2013, 11:03 PM
Quote from sfkhooper on April 14, 2013, 06:02
Time to shape the headstock. Found a design I like (!) and printed it out.

...

http://i48.tinypic.com/2ykalap.jpg

Can't find my jigsaw. It's in a box somewhere. Going to grab my father-in-laws later in the day, so onto staining the body in the meantime.

Hey, don't do what I did - came around the headstock clockwise with the jigsaw, and the base plate rode up the neck transition when I got to the end, leaving a nice groove for me to sand out!

sfkhooper
14-04-2013, 11:11 PM
Thanks dude. Should look great with a few coats of lacquer. I'm going for high gloss, but I'm looking at probably 6-8 coats, maybe more, to get the finish I want. First one just done now. With today's weather I should be right for 3 coats.

Here's the temporary rig I did for lacquering.

http://i45.tinypic.com/30c99bn.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/cotfk.jpg

Gavin1393
14-04-2013, 11:38 PM
Nice vice!

Re: Shaping the headstock

I make a template out of perspex....re-usable, and exceptionally easy to shape.

Print out the shape as you did on the printer. Attach the printed image to the perspex with double sided tape. Cut out the shape on the scroll-saw (jig saw is much the same) and then smooth the edges to shape!

Granted perspex may not have been readily available in the times of your grandfather!

sfkhooper
15-04-2013, 03:15 AM
It's a "Z Vice 2". Cost about $300 from the Home Show a few years ago. Worth every cent! This vice is amazingly flexible, even comes with pipe-cutting attachments. Love it; best vice I've ever used!

sfkhooper
15-04-2013, 03:19 AM
Got my hands on a jigsaw, so onto the cutting. It was slower going than I expected, hard wood and a blunt blade! But here's the sanded result. I'm very happy with the outcome.

I should point out that my wife, Kerrie, did the actual jigsaw work. She has a much better hand at it than I do, always has. It's the one power tool that I DON'T fight her for! Thanks Hon! ;)

http://i47.tinypic.com/fxy14x.jpg

...and here it is hanging from the shed roof after one coat of lacquer. Very nice if I do say so myself!

http://i49.tinypic.com/14lj1vr.jpg

sfkhooper
15-04-2013, 03:22 AM
Here's the body after two coats of lacquer. Starting to look ok, but the timber is still drinking it up so we have aq long way to go. Always resist the temptation to put on thick layers!!!

http://i48.tinypic.com/64dw5g.jpg

Gavin1393
15-04-2013, 04:06 AM
The grain on that headstock is fantastic. Pity about the 'knot' at the 'f' hole...

sfkhooper
15-04-2013, 04:38 AM
Yeah, I was really disappointed at first, but I'm owning it now. It's unique, it's mine and let's not forget we're talking about a $169 guitar here ;)

Gavin1393
15-04-2013, 05:36 AM
But after all your efforts it may well end up being a $1000 or even $2000 guitar!!!??

sfkhooper
15-04-2013, 05:51 AM
Lol!! Not likely, but if it sounds even half decent I can see it being highly treasured for years to come.

Gavin1393
15-04-2013, 07:50 AM
I just posted this compilation of Glue Intel issues and solutions on this thread.

http://pitbullguitars.com/?page_id=42&mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=242.0

It may help with the glue issues on your guitar build.

4runner
15-04-2013, 10:59 AM
Looking good hoops. Nice headstock, make it really original.

sfkhooper
16-04-2013, 08:08 AM
Here we are after three coats of gloss on the body, two on the neck. I used the camera flash this this time so you can see it's actually walnut, not black!

http://i47.tinypic.com/1264bdf.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2lk67gk.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/dx0743.jpg

sfkhooper
16-04-2013, 09:49 PM
Got another coat of lacquer done this morning before leaving for work, so that's three now on the neck and four on the body. I'm taking the time to sand down with fine steel wool between coats, so I'm starting with a super smooth surface each time. It's really paying off I think, since I'm aiming for a high gloss piano finish. I'll take another photo after applying the fifth coat tonight. It's looking like 8 coats will be the go, which was my initial estimate. So, calculating forward, I might be assembling by Thursday night!

Gavin1393
16-04-2013, 11:35 PM
Wow, this is really quick. Are you sure you are giving each coat enough time to cure in between coats. Being dry is one thing, curing is another?

sfkhooper
17-04-2013, 01:19 AM
I'm using Miniwax Wipe-On Poly, a clear polyurethane. Great product! We've used it before, applying it with this frequency with fantastic results.

Gavin1393
17-04-2013, 02:00 AM
Excellent! Thanks for the headsup on it! Who stocks it?

sfkhooper
17-04-2013, 02:07 AM
It's just off the shelf at Bunnings. It's very thin, olive oil consistency, so it wipes on incredibly thin and therefore has quick drying times. It has taken 4 coats so far to get beyond satin and into something resembling gloss. It's nothing like garden variety estapol, which only requires a couple of brush-applied coats to get a thick gloss sheen going. This is absolutely a professional craftsman's choice for building up a piano finish gloss with a hand rubbed look. I highly recommend it.

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 02:26 AM
Quote from sfkhooper on April 16, 2013, 11:07
It's just off the shelf at Bunnings. It's very thin, olive oil consistency, so it wipes on incredibly thin and therefore has quick drying times. It has taken 4 coats so far to get beyond satin and into something resembling gloss. It's nothing like garden variety estapol, which only requires a couple of brush-applied coats to get a thick gloss sheen going. This is absolutely a professional craftsman's choice for building up a piano finish gloss with a hand rubbed look. I highly recommend it.

Might give this wipe on gloss a go Scott, sounds good, I like the idea of thin coats and short dry/curing times. Sick of spray on gloss leaving runs and having to sand that off before next coat

Your tele is coming along well Scott !

cheers Wokka

dingobass
17-04-2013, 02:41 AM
Yep, great product for furniture, but a real tone killer on Guitars....

Sorry to bring it down guys but I have seen and used so many of these wonder products and ended up sanding the bejesus out of the Guitar to try and get back the tone!

Quite often the easy way is not the best way...

sfkhooper
17-04-2013, 02:45 AM
Hmmm... Why is that? This isn't an estapol that sits on top of the wood and hardens it, the first few layers soaked right in.

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 02:47 AM
Quote from dingobass on April 16, 2013, 11:41
Yep, great product for furniture, but a real tone killer on Guitars....

Sorry to bring it down guys but I have seen and used so many of these wonder products and ended up sanding the bejesus out of the Guitar to try and get back the tone!

Quite often the easy way is not the best way...

yer thought this may be the negative side of the miniwax DB. I thought you liked sanding so much you sand in your sleep ?
I'll stick to lots of wudtone gloss coats with lots of curing time

dingobass
17-04-2013, 02:59 AM
The answer is in your reply, it soaks in.. there is the problem, it is filling the pores of the timber with plastic. This clogs it up and stops the timbers natural resonance hence it kills the tone :(

Anyhoo, as I always say, there is nothing wrong with experimenting with stuff, I do it all the time and this is how we learn!

And yes, Wokka, I love sanding.... NOT!
But it is one of, no, the most important part of any finish.
The more you sand and get that surface nice and flat, the better any product you use to finish your Guitar will work.

DB's Mantra... Sand, sand and sand again, then sand it some more. And when you think you have sanded enough, sand it again!

sfkhooper
17-04-2013, 03:03 AM
Ok, maybe I'd better stop, string it up and see how it sounds. Chalk it up to a learning experience. I can always start again on another kit next month ;)

sfkhooper
17-04-2013, 03:28 AM
Hmmm, these guys actually praise the WipeOn poly

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/archives/threads.php?id=1368_0_7_240_C

Gavin1393
17-04-2013, 04:28 AM
I suppose it comes down to the purpose of use that you have for the guitar. Not to sound derogatory, but if you are 'Shredding' or playing 'heavy metal' at extreme gain and heavy distortion, you probably wouldn't see any discernable difference in tone resulting from the product used to paint and seal the guitar body.
Being an acoustic builder I know how important tone is. An acoustic guitar is really an 'air pump' and the more plastic you stuff into the pores the less the guitar resonates and hence tone is dulled. I'm guessing that the same principles will surely apply to an electric...

sfkhooper
17-04-2013, 04:32 AM
I'm inclined to agree, it does make sense. I just didn't think of that when I started down this track. My first guitar, it's a rookie mistake. I've ended up paying about exactly the same amount that I would have for Wudtone products, so I'll just go that way on my next build. Maybe I'll get lucky and it will sound ok. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Gavin1393
17-04-2013, 04:39 AM
Yeah, the Wudtone is great value for money and preserves the tonal qualities of the wood. Less messy, and if applied properly will still give a high gloss finish.
I am working on a LP in Black Magic Woman Wudtone which after painting and applying the gloss I allowed the Gloss to cure and then put it on the Buffer - the result is a GLASS-LIKE finish. My 12 year old son was stunned at how it looks and to be sure, so was I? My next move was to take off the strings and rip the electronics out of all my other guitars (acoustic and electric) and run them through the buffer. Results are breath-taking!

sfkhooper
17-04-2013, 04:42 AM
Sounds awesome. Any pics? Got a build diary going for it?

Gavin1393
17-04-2013, 04:45 AM
No, no pics or build diaries. I might do some pics this weekend. I have done several build diaries on the forum, but since work has become hectic I have confined myself to doing a few tutorials to help aspirant builders and really answering any build questions where I feel I might add value.

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 05:03 AM
Quote from Gavin1393 on April 16, 2013, 13:45
No, no pics or build diaries. I might do some pics this weekend. I have done several build diaries on the forum, but since work has become hectic I have confined myself to doing a few tutorials to help aspirant builders and really answering any build questions where I feel I might add value.

Gav what sort of buffing pad are you using and are you using a wax or polish to get the glass effect ?
we're keen to get this look but don't want to dull the tone. Superkeen to see some photos !

keloooe
17-04-2013, 05:06 AM
Yeah, were all super keen to know!!!
Are you using a buffing wheel, like the SM one??

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 05:22 AM
Quote from keloooe on April 16, 2013, 14:06
Yeah, were all super keen to know!!!
Are you using a buffing wheel, like the SM one??
crikey Pest its a late start for you 1st post on the forum 4:06pm Melb time !! U been busy at school or sanding glue bro ?

keloooe
17-04-2013, 05:25 AM
Did some sanding, now about to hit the books!
yeah, a late start cause I was in a hurry this morning!

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 05:28 AM
Quote from keloooe on April 16, 2013, 14:25
Did some sanding, now about to hit the books!
yeah, a late start cause I was in a hurry this morning!

ok goodo. I'm going to try those wire brushes to get rid of glue on my PRS, are you using brass or the steel brushes ? which worked the best ? Nylon would be better for brushing teeth wouldn't it ?

keloooe
17-04-2013, 05:30 AM
Quote from wokkaboy on April 16, 2013, 14:28

Quote from keloooe on April 16, 2013, 14:25
Did some sanding, now about to hit the books!
yeah, a late start cause I was in a hurry this morning!

ok goodo. I'm going to try those wire brushes to get rid of glue on my PRS, are you using brass or the steel brushes ? which worked the best ? Nylon would be better for brushing teeth wouldn't it ?
Steel to get rid of the meat, brass wont work as well!

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 05:34 AM
[/quote]
Steel to get rid of the meat, brass wont work as well![/quote]

cheers Pest I'll try steel then about 180 or 200 grit light sand after, I read Gav's thread on glue, cheers for that Gav
and sorry Scott for hijacking your build diary. Good luck with ur Tele. Might be worth bolting together now after a buff like Gav says, more info to come from Gav about his buffing tecnique

Gavin1393
17-04-2013, 05:56 AM
I am using the previous version of the SM buffer. I have the 4 grit polishers and 4 sets of wheels to apply the polish.
I have allowed the gloss to cure and for some reason decided to give it a go this weekend with the Wudtone finishes.
I fully expected it to rip the finish of the guitar, although I'm not sure why I thought that. Perhaps because there is no mention of buffing on the Wudtone finishing sheets! But what the hell, give it a go and if worst comes to worst I'll just sand everything back and have another go! Particularly with this LP guitar in Black Magic Woman....it has been a bit of a disaster. I had Glue problems, sanded the glue through the thin cap to the Bass Wood underneath. Decided to trim the edges of the body by 3mm and redo the binding so that the now 'vast' areas where the cap was missing were not exposed. Redid the stain but it looked terrible where the bass wood was exposed. Decided to them have a go at doing a Burst with the BMW on the outside and GoldenRod in the centre(before Wudtone showed us how). I hated it, sanded back again and started over with re-ordered BMW -Black Magic Woman.

Well, it didn't rip of the Wudtone. It polished it up like GLASS. Bl**dy well brilliant! So I am now in the process of applying the adhesive copper and will attach the neck and electronics in time for GOTM May if all goes well!

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 06:03 AM
Quote from Gavin1393 on April 16, 2013, 14:56
I am using the previous version of the SM buffer. I have the 4 grit polishers and 4 sets of wheels to apply the polish.
I have allowed the gloss to cure and for some reason decided to give it a go this weekend with the Wudtone finishes.
I fully expected it to rip the finish of the guitar, although I'm not sure why I thought that. Perhaps because there is no mention of buffing on the Wudtone finishing sheets! But what the hell, give it a go and if worst comes to worst I'll just sand everything back and have another go! Particularly with this LP guitar in Black Magic Woman....it has been a bit of a disaster. I had Glue problems, sanded the glue through the thin cap to the Bass Wood underneath. Decided to trim the edges of the body by 3mm and redo the binding so that the now 'vast' areas where the cap was missing were not exposed. Redid the stain but it looked terrible where the bass wood was exposed. Decided to them have a go at doing a Burst with the BMW on the outside and GoldenRod in the centre(before Wudtone showed us how). I hated it, sanded back again and started over with re-ordered BMW -Black Magic Woman.

Well, it didn't rip of the Wudtone. It polished it up like GLASS. Bl**dy well brilliant! So I am now in the process of applying the adhesive copper and will attach the neck and electronics in time for GOTM May if all goes well!

crikey Gav u have spent some time on this LP, keen to see some pics somewhere of this glass finish. Have you put your own logo on the headstock ?

Gavin1393
17-04-2013, 06:35 AM
Nah! I've copied one of Perry's......think he'll much prefer that one! :) Just kidding! Putting my own on it since the Maestro has deemed it appropriate I put it on a kit build!

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 06:42 AM
how many coats of wudtone gloss did you apply Gav before buffing and did you wait about a week between last gloss coat and buffing ? You may have hit a gold mine here Gav with this technique, can go with your goldmine ES 5mm clear tubing idea !!

4runner
17-04-2013, 07:15 AM
I'm really interested in how you go with the Black Magic Woman. On my first build and doing an SG. Build diary here. Found it really difficult to work with, but i like it.

http://pitbullguitars.com/?page_id=42&mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=217.4

wokkaboy
17-04-2013, 07:22 AM
Quote from 4runner on April 16, 2013, 16:15
I'm really interested in how you go with the Black Magic Woman. On my first build and doing an SG. Build diary here. Found it really difficult to work with, but i like it.

http://pitbullguitars.com/?page_id=42&mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=217.4

Hi 4runner I am building a SG-1F with BMW too, is yours a flame maple top ? hard to see. I am doing a carmine gypsy burst but made the mistake of applying a cherry flamenco around the edge while I waited a week for Australia post to deliver our damn wudtone so the BMW isn't soaking in very well on the edges. Will try light coats like DB suggested.
Also 4runner good work dampening the sump while staining !

Gavin1393
17-04-2013, 09:09 AM
Quote from wokkaboy on April 16, 2013, 15:42
how many coats of wudtone gloss did you apply Gav before buffing and did you wait about a week between last gloss coat and buffing ? You may have hit a gold mine here Gav with this technique, can go with your goldmine ES 5mm clear tubing idea !!

I did three or four coats of gloss on the BMW. With BMW you really need to follow the instructions with the deep colour. i did wait a week for the gloss coat to clear.

sfkhooper
19-04-2013, 09:02 PM
Here's the body after the final top coat. Assembly tonight!

http://i48.tinypic.com/21cbiqf.jpg

GlennGP
19-04-2013, 11:33 PM
Looking classy - should be an exciting weekend for you!

sfkhooper
20-04-2013, 09:10 AM
Help! Does anyone know where the wiring diagram for the TL-1TH is? The TL-1, and the video, refers to a 7-pin switch, not the 8-pin variety that comes with the TL-1TH. Also, one of the pots is wired into the circuit in the diagram, but the other is literally sitting out in the middle of nowhere with no connections. Oddly though it's that 2nd pot that has the capacitor attached. How does the other pot wire up? The first pot that is connected to the circuit is very confusing. It seems to have the two pickup earths soldered to the pot base (earth). And it looks like leg 3 of the pot is bent around and also soldered to the base, correct? That's fine, but what is very odd is that neither of the other two legs are used. This doesn't make sense as the pots have two signal lines and one ground, so how does that work? Help!

Gavin1393
20-04-2013, 10:25 AM
Try this one...

http://www.dimarzio.com/sites/default/files/diagrams/2h1v1t_3w_all.pdf

sfkhooper
20-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Quote from Gavin1393 on April 19, 2013, 19:25
Try this one...

http://www.dimarzio.com/sites/default/files/diagrams/2h1v1t_3w_all.pdf



Thanks, Gavin. I actually used this one: http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=tele_2v_no_tone

Looking at the one you suggested, which I'm not sure I fully understand, it looks like I've ignored tone and gone for two volume pots, so guess I'm up for a rewire!

Kind of amazed that each model doesn't have it's own separate clear wiring diagram. :?

sfkhooper
20-04-2013, 12:32 PM
I'm having trouble with the bridge placement. From what I understand, the distance between the fret side of the nut, and the middle of the 12th fret needs to be the same as the distance between the middle of the 12th fret and the saddles, yes? I measure 322mm for the first half, but 330mm for the bottom, and that's with the bridge pushed right up to the scratch plate. Am I overlooking something?

http://i49.tinypic.com/21j2iqq.jpg

GlennGP
20-04-2013, 01:01 PM
Don't panic!

Measure again. And measure again. There should be more play in it than that. Okay, a couple of things to check:
- make sure you're measuring to the point at which the strings would no longer be in contact with the saddles;
- it looks like you might be able to shift all the saddles forward a bit, to try to make up the difference;
- measure again.

You may have already tried these things, but it's hard to see from here! And you did ask for help. One of the older hands may have more ideas. Good luck!

robin
20-04-2013, 06:45 PM
Make sure you are measuring to the middle (or crown) of the fret wire (12th fret).

rob

dingobass
20-04-2013, 10:52 PM
There is some play at the bridge end, this is called compensation.

Gavin has written an excellent article on this and on setting the correct saddle positions for intonation.... I know it is on the forum somewhere but I have lost track of where all this info is!

Might be time to set up a section for all the relevant info, methinks.....

Gavin1393
20-04-2013, 11:04 PM
Here is my response to Rob's post last evening.

The neck must be fastened to the guitar body before you position any choice of bridge. A key factor that determines where the bridge will be positioned on the body of the guitar is the point where the neck meets the body. Scale length is vitally important.
All individual saddles must be set close to the front of the bridge. Now take a long ruler and measure the scale length from the front of the nut (or middle of the zero-fret) and position the middle of the saddles at this point. The bridge is then located centered to the fingerboard and its front parallel to the frets and screwed on. If you don't have the long ruler measure half of the scale length from the actual 12th fret.
Setting the intonation (compensation): Put the strings on, tune and stretch them lightly to shorten the time they need to settle. Retune. Now compare the pitch of an open string to its pitch when it is depressed at the 12th fret. You might expect that it should be equal but it isn't. When you depress a string its pitch becomes higher than it anticipated be because of the slight increase of string tension when you do so. Therefore the actual vibrating length of all strings must be made longer than the scale length in order to compensate for this fact. This is adjusted when you set the intonation of a guitar. An electric guitar usually has an adjustable saddle and the necessary compensation is therefore easy to adjust by screwing the saddles further away from the nut. Don't forget to retune every time you change the string length.
Make the vibrating string length longer until both pitches are equal. That's all. You will notice that the bass strings need more compensation than the treble strings. It might be necessary to recheck the intonation after a while when the strings have settled in completely.

THEN, here is to post DB was mentioning on intonation set up.

Here is the intonation article:

http://pitbullguitars.com/?page_id=42&mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=186

sfkhooper
20-04-2013, 11:17 PM
Thanks for your help guys!

Ok, I think I can see the problem. Take a look at the pic above and you might see there is a 3mm gap between the bottom of the neck and the scratch plate. This is because the pickups dictated where the scratch plate was going to sit. Not accurately routed maybe? Anyway, that has pushed everything down.

I'm definitely measuring from where the strings leave the nut, to the middle of the 12th fret wire, to where the strings leave the bridge. I have 321mm and 325mm, and thats with the saddle wound out further than would be comfortable, ie another turn or two and the saddle falls off. Not good!

Gavin1393
20-04-2013, 11:19 PM
Quote from sfkhooper on April 19, 2013, 21:29

Kind of amazed that each model doesn't have it's own separate clear wiring diagram. :?

Pitbull do not want to be prescriptive in terms of telling you how you should wire your guitar. I mean, YOU are building this guitar and may just want to coil split, or perhaps put in a push pull pot or perhaps concentric pots to handle the volume and tone settings for each pickup.

There are links to these diagrams on the forum that Adam encourages you to use. The Dimarzio site is great for basically selecting on the site what you want to use and it will offer suggested wiring options. Just remember that there are some very basic rules when it comes to wiring and the site kinda expects you to know these.
The pickups have a HOT wire and a GROUND wire. The ground wire is always soldered to the back of the pot.
The bridge must always have a ground wire, this is also soldered to the back of the pot.
All the ground wires must be linked up and exit the guitar through the output jack.
All long wires should be insulated to reduce hum.

Then there are some tricks that many of us use to give a smooth tone transition through out the volumes which involve an extra step never shown on these diagrams. Hint! It involves a 150k resistor and a .001 mf capacitor.

Hope this clears up some of the issues you were having.

keloooe
21-04-2013, 12:18 AM
Yes, that little trick that nobody ever tells you is awesome, especially for my Epi, cause at 10, there's instant feedback, so I have to dial it back to 5, so with one of 'these', I can get my sound back!

sfkhooper
21-04-2013, 09:03 AM
Quote from Gavin1393 on April 20, 2013, 08:19


Pitbull do not want to be prescriptive in terms of telling you how you should wire your guitar.

That's fine, but I'm willing to bet that most customers wouldn't be experienced with even basic electronics. In my opinion there should at least be a wiring diagram for the kit as delivered.

dingobass
21-04-2013, 09:25 AM
There are video guides to help you on your way, as well as links.

There are so many differing methods of Guitar wiring for every model we sell, and if we were to provide these as printed options, it would cost us a small fortune in printing and we would have to pass that quite considerable cost onto the customer.

This is why we recommend that folk do some research of the links provided to find a diagram that suits their needs.

Another really helpful site is www.guitarelectronics.com
These guys have more wiring schematics than you can poke a stick at 8O

keloooe
21-04-2013, 09:43 AM
Wow DB, you weren't joking then, just checked them out!!!
My eyes 3 mins ago: 8O

dingobass
21-04-2013, 09:50 AM
Quote from keloooe on April 20, 2013, 18:43
Wow DB, you weren't joking then, just checked them out!!!
My eyes 3 mins ago: 8O

Yep, that was my reaction when I first found them as well.. And lets not mention that they also do custom wiring schematics also!

keloooe
21-04-2013, 09:57 AM
Yeah, that is even better!!!
And DB, check your email

sfkhooper
22-04-2013, 06:22 AM
I've Been going over options to fix my bridge placement problem. Can't see many ways around it. Either the scratch plate was improperly cut or the body wasn't routed correctly for the pickups. Either way, the two simply don't go together. Two choices, move the pickups up so that the scratch plate moves up to the correct location, or get a differently shaped scratch plate. As I've already screwed the scratch plate down, the choices are further limited.

Looking back, what I should have done is measure everything up first, before I screwed the scratch plate down. The only practical choice would have been to route or file out the pickup recesses to correctly relocate them. A problematic job.

There's an easier solution. In it's current situation, the scratchplate needs about 5mm added to where it interfaces with the guitar neck, and about 5mm shaved off the bottom to correctly accommodate the bridge. A custom scratch plate is in order. We've dealt with a local company called Resiplex who cut custom shapes out of any type of plastic. So I'll remove the scratchplate, trace it onto paper with pencil and make the appropriate mods. Resiplex can cut sandwiched perspex on an angle, so I might even be able to achieve exactly the same look that I have now with the black and white margin around the edge. I doubt it'll be more than about $30 and the custom shape should be barely noticeable.

I'm not sure how the kits get out of the factory like this. Whichever way I tackle this problem, it was going to involve some major mod, either to the body or the scratchplate. They simply don't go together. But, thinking outside the box, I should have a solution soon.

4runner
22-04-2013, 06:58 AM
Cant you just push the neck in further? and screw it in?

Gavin1393
22-04-2013, 06:59 AM
Hi SFK,

Before you start making modifications to what might not actually need modifications can you please take some measurements and post the results of those measurements on this thread? I need these measurements in order to help you.

The first measurement I need is for you to measure from the FRET-WIRE of the 12th FRET,to the point where, if you ran your finger along the strings, you would touch the nut. Hence you are measuring the nut from the 'bridge side of the nut rather than from the 'Headstock' side of the nut.

The second measurement I need is from the same point on the 12th FRET,that is, measure from the FRET-WIRE of the 12th FRET. I first want you to use a screw drive and wind the saddles on the bridge as far forward (towards the pickups) as they will go. When you have done this please measure the distance from the saddles to the 12th Fret.

Secondly, I would like you to wind the saddles away from the pickups as far back as they will go. Please re-measure the distance from the saddles to the 12th Fret.

Please provide me with those measurements exactly as they are and I will then try and assist you.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/w6c00-Nut-to-12th-Fret.jpg

adam
22-04-2013, 07:20 AM
Hey Hooper,

What a difficult and painful birth this is turning out to be. I hope, like Glenn, you get through it and take out Guitar of the Month as a reward for all your effort.

I just want to add that it doesn't make sense for the pickguard to be "out". These pieces are most probably stamped out of a machine, so it just doesn't seem likely that one will differ from another.

It could be that the routings are slightly out and may need some "encouragement" in the right direction. This wouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone for kits in this price range.

If this is the case, I'd be looking at adjusting the routings before starting to make custom pickguards.

sfkhooper
22-04-2013, 08:53 PM
Quote from Gavin1393 on April 21, 2013, 15:59
Hi SFK,

Before you start making modifications to what might not actually need modifications can you please take some measurements and post the results of those measurements on this thread? I need these measurements in order to help you.

The first measurement I need is for you to measure from the FRET-WIRE of the 12th FRET,to the point where, if you ran your finger along the strings, you would touch the nut. Hence you are measuring the nut from the 'bridge side of the nut rather than from the 'Headstock' side of the nut.

The second measurement I need is from the same point on the 12th FRET,that is, measure from the FRET-WIRE of the 12th FRET. I first want you to use a screw drive and wind the saddles on the bridge as far forward (towards the pickups) as they will go. When you have done this please measure the distance from the saddles to the 12th Fret.

Secondly, I would like you to wind the saddles away from the pickups as far back as they will go. Please re-measure the distance from the saddles to the 12th Fret.

Please provide me with those measurements exactly as they are and I will then try and assist you.
http://pitbullguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/w6c00-Nut-to-12th-Fret.jpg

Hi Gavin,

I've made these measurements a few times. I totally get that I'm measuring the distance of the free string. I measured again this morning...

nut to 12th fret: 321mm
saddle to 12th fret (fully wound out): 326mm
saddle to 12th fret (fully wound in): 332mm

The scratch plate simply sits too far toward the bridge. Oddly though, the gap between the scratch plate and the neck is only about 3mm, so were it to sit correctly the distance between the fully wound out saddles and the 12th fret would be 323mm, which still isn't ideal anyway, right?

4runner, yes, the neck is definitely pushed all the way up flush with the body. There is no gap between them.

Gavin1393
22-04-2013, 11:30 PM
Actually at 323 it would be pretty much perfect.....

I have relooked at all your pictures you posted and these are my thoughts.

There are no pre-drilled holes for the bridge on this tele. Can you confirm?

This being the case I would carefully shave off 3mm of the pickguard where the pickguard meets the bridge. You could either 'trace' the bridge shape and cut that shape into the bottom of the pickguard or simply take of 3mm off the whole bottom of the pickguard.
Moving humbucker positions and routing into the body will just stuff up the body or the pickguard and then your humbuckers will not fit snug anymore.

Effectively you can then shift the bridge towards the 12th fret by 3mm and that should be spot on for the treble-E string...you can then wind the saddles back for all the other strings.

sfkhooper
22-04-2013, 11:38 PM
That's right, Gavin, no pre-drilled holes. You've arrived at the same conclusion as me. Reshape the pickguard. I'll trace the outline for the Resiplex guys to replicate and then play with what I already have. That way if it goes pearshaped I'll have the template and can have them cut another one for me if I need it.

Gavin1393
23-04-2013, 12:19 AM
Yep! To be on the safe side and for asthetics since you are going the 'cut-out' route, i'd get them to take off 4mm off the bottom and give yourself 1.5 mm on either side of the pickguard for the bridge to sit in.

sfkhooper
06-08-2013, 12:30 AM
It occurred to me that I never posted a pic of the final guitar. How rude!! So here it is. It's the second from the left. It just happened to feature in a shot I took of my ES-1G, which I am infinitely more pleased with. Having said that though, I've decided that I'm going to completely strip the "Telestrat" down and refinish it in a solid colour. I'll possibly put a different bridge on it too as I'm not happy with the rattles and tonal fluctuations on sustain that come out of it presently.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2cf30c9.jpg