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GlennGP
10-04-2013, 05:30 AM
When you've been around the block a few times you don't just learn a bunch of things, you learn a bunch of things about learning things. This post (and hopefully the thread) is about ways of learning.

I have two main ways of learning things, named for the way they happened in my life: the "Yorkshire" way and the "Choux" way. You can't contrive the "Choux" way, so most of the time it's "Yorkshire". But they both have their benefits.

Let me explain.

When I was in my teens I played in brass bands in Victoria. I was in a pretty mediocre outfit which marched on ANZAC days, played the odd agricultural show, and did neither very well. Then we got a new musical director, a genuine brass-playing Yorkshireman, with a very clear idea on how things could get done. Within a couple of years he'd lifted us from "untested" to B Grade State Champions and National Finalists. The main lesson I learned from him was "Practise does not make perfect: practise of perfection makes perfect". Broken down, this means that if you make mistakes in your rehearsal you'll make the same mistakes in performance, so you need to consistently practice without error if you ever hope to perform without error. Starting where we were, though, there was another lesson he had for us, and that was to ensure that we could perform competently before trying for something harder. This applied not just to playing, but also to marching. He had us out on the fire track, marching up and down, just getting our rank and file spacing right, before we ever tried to re-learn wheels, counter-marches or any of that other more complicated stuff. This is an excellent lesson for all sorts of things in life. How can you ever expect to acquire complex skills if you haven't learned the basic ones which underlie them? It's the old "gotta learn to crawl before you can walk" thing. I've applied this in my guitar-building by taking on what I presumed to be a simpler guitar type (the Tele) before attempting the more complex Red Special I'd really like to build, the theory being that I'll get a shallower learning curve if I spread the experience over several builds of escalating complexity.

Anyway, in my mind this is the "Yorkshire" way, because the first time it really crystallised for me was when it was applied by my Yorkshire-born brass bandmaster.

The other way is named in my mind simply because nobody ever told me it was hard to make profiteroles. I was living in a place in Carlton with a girlfriend, and her parents were coming over for dinner. We wanted to impress them (her mother was a home economics teacher), so I looked through a cookbook and found a recipe for profiteroles, thought they looked nice, and made them for dessert. They went down a treat, and I was asked whoever had taught me to make them, because choux pastry is a real bugger. I innocently admitted that this was the first time I'd ever made them, I just followed the recipe. Kudos for me! The same sort of thing has happened a couple of other times in my life, but that was the first memorable one. Sometimes, being aware that what you're about to attempt is something of a specialist skill, that knowledge can actually impair your ability to do it successfully. Equally, being ignorant of that fact can enable you to pull it off, sometimes to the annoyance of real experts! As I mentioned, this is the "nobody ever told me it was difficult" explanation, and it's impossible to contrive an approach this way, because it depends on genuine ignorance and stubborn adherence to instructions. But when it does come off, you've got an instant higher-level skill. And in my mind it's marked as the "Choux" way.

There are undoubtedly other approaches to learning, but these are two I've encountered in my life. It's not possible to say one is better than the other, because one is rational and the other isn't.

I'd love to hear about how others approach learning new skills - while many of us are first-time guitar builders, requiring the acquisition of new skills to get it done, I dare say the more experienced luthiers around here still face new challenges from time to time. More than anything, though, I'd just like to read a yarn or two.

Exercise the creative grey-matter, gents. Your topic is set. Now, entertain us!

keloooe
10-04-2013, 06:14 AM
Early 2011, I was at a cricket camp in central Victoria, and one night, we were discussing this topic, and we were all taught basically the "Yorkshire" way: Practice makes permanent!
I say that in my head all the time, especially when I'm doing something in front of people!

robin
10-04-2013, 09:35 AM
Unfortunately most of my learning skills seem to be the "learn from your mistakes" school.

They are hard lessons, but they are usually the ones you don't forget in a hurry.

rob

dingobass
10-04-2013, 09:45 AM
Nice one Glenn!

OK, this reminds me of a saying my dear old Grandfather still uses, ( he is 92 and still has all his marbles)

" it is good to learn from your mistakes, but better to learn from other peoples mistakes"
The old boy is right.

Every day I go into the Man Cave of Lutherie, I can be sure of a few things happening.
1. Something will go wrong
2. I will learn something
3. My skills will improve

Hence my saying, there is always a work around :D

robin
10-04-2013, 09:57 AM
The other little nugget I learned.

If, like me, you are sometimes embarrassed to ask a question because some might think it stupid.

"There are no stupid questions - only stupid answers"

rob

GlennGP
10-04-2013, 10:38 AM
Quote from robin on April 9, 2013, 18:57
The other little nugget I learned.

If, like me, you are sometimes embarrassed to ask a question because some might think it stupid.

"There are no stupid questions - only stupid answers"

rob

Yep, that's one of my favourites, too. I use it on my minions frequently.

glenno3228
22-04-2013, 10:31 AM
Thanks Glenn. Timely and poignant.

Like you, I figured I'd start with an easier model and work up from there. Having scratch made r/c model aircraft I figured I could get around the structural challenges and it would be more about fit and finish. For me it's as much about the process as it is the learning method. Though I do like the Choux model. :) Ignorance can sometimes be bliss.

I'd suggest that if you we're to ask Mrs Glenno regarding the Yorkshire model, she'd rightly suggest I don't have the patience to practice perfection. There's too many other things to see and do and as such I subscribe to the law of diminishing returns. If I'm the only consumer of the end product, i need to set the quality bar to my own subjective level of perfection which in this case will be "fit for purpose". There will be many factors in this but for my project (the RC1) I'm prepared to sacrifice perfection in order to broaden my skill base and get me playing it.

Playability. - I don't expect something that resembles a professionally set up custom strat, but I do want to play it regularly.
Reliability. - I don't expect it to be a big gig road trip capable guitar, but I'd like to think I can have some fun for several years In the music room
Safety. - granted, it's not a space shuttle but it would be embarrassing if it were to blow up my mates $3k valve amp.
Tone. - I don't expect this to be a velvety smooth uber guitar, but won't be happy with something that sounds like a cheap toy
Aesthetics. - it won't feature in a magazine, or even win the GoM in this site, but I do have to look at it and show it to my mates who are watching with interest, and lurking with intent. One is making an acoustic from scratch and is envious of the progress to date.

So what's the point?

At each step along the way of the build, I'll make decisions as to which path I want to take. These decisions will impact one, several, or all of the above points. Whether it's Yorkshire, Choux or another, I aim to learn by both my mistakes, and yours. Then have a look at that ES335. :)

As long as I get a playable guitar that looks ok, sounds ok, doesn't fall apart or blow up the afomentioned Fender valve amp, I will have learned a few more skills and spent a small amount of time and money getting them. With a bonus guitar in the deal. Sweet!

Cheers
Glenno

keloooe
22-04-2013, 08:57 PM
Hey glenno, that is the same kind of expectations I have for the LP-1 I'm building!!!

glenno3228
22-04-2013, 10:59 PM
Quote from keloooe on April 22, 2013, 05:57
Hey glenno, that is the same kind of expectations I have for the LP-1 I'm building!!!

Nice. Look forward to seeing the finished product.

Another saying that comes to mind here, given my desire to get the RC1 finished and plugged in, is;

9 women can't make a baby in a month!

To make a guitar will take as long as it will take. Coats need time to dry between sanding, etc etc.