ES-335 My First Build

[4runner]

Hi All!

I always wanted a hollow body and had been looking at Epiphone Dots. Stumbled across this website and thought why not build one myself? So I have gone ahead and ordered the ES-1GT kit.

Furthermore I have ordered the Wudtone - Black Magic Woman with gold highlights and extra gloss with ageing kit.

I will post up my build but until it arrives, can anyone tell me the following?

It is listed on back order, anyone know how long this will take to arrive? I'm expecting more than the usual 5-10 days.

What is the ageing mean in the gloss with ageing kit?

Anyone else built one of these? any hints or tips?


-4Runner

[Gavin1393]

If it's on back order you could well be looking at 6-8 weeks...but Adam will know what is already on the water so don't stress!
Ageing on Wudtone as a finish gives the guitar a finish that makes the guitar look 'older' than it is...it's a slight yellowing effect rather than a clear gloss.....all those hours spent in smoky pubs condenses into a small bottle of magic paint!

Yes, a few of us have built them, myself, Wokka, and DB.....we collectively have a question for you...

How patient are you?

We ask simply because threading the pots through the 'f' hole is pretty challenging for most! You will need plenty of patience! Search the forum and you will see how we did it...don't google it, you'll likely smash the computer with the guitar trying the methods suggested. Adam's threatening to do a video of the best method but that may not be ready for a few days.....

[dingobass]

Quote from 4runner on April 4, 2013, 14:28

Hi 4Runner,

I believe the kits will be here within the next couple of weeks, Adam will be able to confirm this though.

The ageing component gives the finish that look of a guitar that has spent most of its working life in smoke filled pubs and the general patina that older instruments gain over the years.
This won't be as apparent on the BMW finish but it will enhance the look of the finish anyway.

My tip is to take the build slow, do a mock up build first, get the neck in position and make sure you have the scale length correct and the neck in straight.
Then when you are satisfied all is right, drill all the holes for pickup surrounds etc.

When it comes to installing the electrics, you will need to feed the complete wiring harness through the f hole.
Gav came up with an easy way to do this using some plastic tube.... I am sure that when he reads this thread he will fill you in on all the details 8-)

[Gavin1393]

DB - You type too slow! ;)

[dingobass]

That's because I am still suffering from the trauma I had getting the pots into the ES.... Would have been nice if a certain gentleman had shared his little secret earlier :D

[Gavin1393]

What??? and end up going for trauma counciling on my own - what are friends for!!!???

[4runner]

Thanks guys for the quick response!

I'm in no hurry so its no real stress how long it takes, or build. I had figured the wiring was going to be tricky, but i'm a patient guy so it should be okay.

hhhmmm.... maybe i should get a SG for the meantime.

[adam]

Hi 4runner,

yes, the ES-1G will be back in stock around mid April, which is not too long to wait. We have monthly shipments, so if something popular is out of stock, you won;t have to wait too long.

EDIT: Are we talking about the ES-1G or the ES-1GT? I have the ES-1G coming in mid April and the ES-1GT coming in mid May. As I said above, the ES-1G is the popular model and the T version, with the tailpiece, we will only stock sporadically and may even be a special order in the future. Sorry for any confusion.

[4runner]

Yep, i ordered the ES-1GT but i'm happy to wait. Actually i must compliment you on your marketing strategy because i just ordered the SG-1F.

Even though i could probably buy an epiphone dot for the cash i've spent today. I figure the SG-1F can be my trial run for when the ES-1GT arrives and i end up with 2 guitars for the price of one.

I hope they sound good!


**By the way, i think the reply button is bugged on Google Chrome. I had to hit the quote button and clear all the text to post.

[Gavin1393]

For some reason the buttons only seem to work on Explorer.....

I have built 4 pitbull guitars, three have the original pickups in them and sound great. The one that doesn't have the original pickup in, i wanted to coil split but opted to get 4 conductor wired pickups......

....Adam, is it possible to get the factory to supply pickups with 4 conductor wires rather than the two they currently supply?

[keloooe]

Yea, add them as extras??? Cause there's a wiring diagram that I want to try out with a LP...

[Gavin1393]

It would be better to have them as standard supply Callum, that way you don't end up paying for perfectly good pickups that you wont be using especially where folk like me and DB and others prefer to coil split as a standard feature...

[keloooe]

Actually, yea, stock 4-conductors would be better

[pedro]

Hi everyone - my ES 1G arrived today and I have been sitting pondering on how to complete the wiring also - what a lovely conundrum, I love a challenge - the LP was challenging enough but I am glad I have been through that before I tackled this....my view is to complete the wiring outside the cavity but using the same technique (ie pots in the cardboard frame) and then feed the whole lot through the f - the only thing that I will need advice on (I believe) do I feed a line through each hole to the relevant pot and then pull them through when the soldering is finished.....my laymans view on this Gav/DB....??
Pete (aka Pedro)

[Gavin1393]

Hi Pete

Seems DB and Adam might be a while in the video making process still. I might do a tutorial on this.

Couple of comments though based on your post.

Tried the pots arrangement on cardboard / perspex in my case, but this proved problematic as Wokka, DB and myself can attest! You need to make the wires long enough between the OUTPUT JACK, the two sets of VOLUME AND TONE POTS and the SWITCH. This is to allow you to remove less than all six units to find out which ground cable is fu.... broken! (Your language deteriorated rapidly after the 5th or 6th attempt!)
So if you are going to use the cardboard don't do it in the normal way, extend it!
No, you don't want to use a line...you want to use tubing. Line doesn't work. They get tangled, work themselves loose, fall off, etc....use 5mm tubing from Bunnings! It fits over the Pots and inside the output jack nice and tightly! Because your cabling is longer you can easily pull each unit into place starting from the Output Jack which is fartherest from the 'f' hole.
Also, because the wire between the units is longer, you are not dragging six items towards the particular cavity you are drawing the tubing out of. This also helps with the temper!
If the tubing becomes loose. Cut the end off and you will have a decent tight fitting piece to continu working with.

[pedro]

Brilliant Gav, of course that will be easier to feed through the holes and pick up through the "f" - so to clarify, the soldering can be completed on the pots with the pickups wiring fed through to the expanded cardboard template. Question - do I have to drill the additional hole for the earth as with the LP1 ??

[keloooe]

Uhhhhhh, the ES arrived this year, and the kits without the hole were very early, so I'm guessing no???

[pedro]

Cheers Kel - looks like I might be spending a little time on this thread over the coming weeks.....thinking of the Wudcote for this fine looking guitar....black magic woman with the gold fittings - or a startling red ...!! I used the Carmine Gypsy - with the Columbian Gold on the back of my LP1 and it looks beautiful...

Do I sound excited.....you bet...haha..!!

[keloooe]

I hear DB currently waking up from a nanna nap!

[Gavin1393]

Quote from pedro on April 5, 2013, 15:15
Brilliant Gav, of course that will be easier to feed through the holes and pick up through the "f" - so to clarify, the soldering can be completed on the pots with the pickups wiring fed through to the expanded cardboard template. Question - do I have to drill the additional hole for the earth as with the LP1 ??

Callum could be right for once! :) probably best to check that you do have the ability to run an earth/grounding wire from the volume pot position inside the body of the guitar to a point where it will connect to a bridge or tailpiece post. It does not need to be soldered to the post but bare wire on the post jammed against the body will do the trick.
I'd definitely complete the soldering of the electronic components on the extended cardboard template.

[wokkaboy]

Hi Pedro,
I took delivery of my ES mid January and it had a earth hole drilled from the bridge post closest to the bottom F hole. If you get a long 3mm drill there shouldn't be much wood to drill through to get to the hollow area if you don't have a hole drilled. Have a close look you should have an earthing wire hole near the bottom bridge post hole

when I knocked in the bridge post piece I ran a long earth wire through to the F-hole for soldering to the back of the pots after

good luck but the tubing idea of Gav's is gold and should be patented !

I'll try and follow your forum and answer any other questions you have

cheers Wokka

[pedro]

Wow.... I now have the holy trinity of luthier support, Wokka, Gav and Kel...nothing can go wrong from here...haha

[keloooe]

Quote from pedro on April 5, 2013, 16:28
Wow.... I now have the holy trinity of luthier support, Wokka, Gav and Kel...nothing can go wrong from here...haha
Hopefully!!! :D

[dingobass]

Gee Pedro, I dunno.... I think I might need to keep an eye on these three to make sure they don't lead you astray! 8-)

[keloooe]

Quote from dingobass on April 5, 2013, 18:54
Gee Pedro, I dunno.... I think I might need to keep an eye on these three to make sure they don't lead you astray! 8-)
The 3 of us are a crafty bunch DB!!!

[4runner]

Just got the SG package. Will look at it when i get home from work.

[Gavin1393]

Really good will power and discipline there! I'd have ripped it open to start my day on a high! But then i'd have nothing to look forward to when i got home, unless if course i found sanding terribly exciting...

[4runner]

Oh i will be leaving work early. I've got some code to do and bam! im outta here.

[4runner]

Got my paints and stuff today. Packaging was faultless pictures to come when I get home.

Quick question, Do you steel wool between each coat including before and after the highlight?

[4runner]

Flawless packing
http://i48.tinypic.com/10wjswm.jpg

Hello there
http://i50.tinypic.com/wvsas2.jpg

Rest of the stuff
http://i49.tinypic.com/23icsba.jpg

Paints
http://i49.tinypic.com/33pczll.jpg

Sanding done, working out my painting rig
http://i48.tinypic.com/14xcf2f.jpg

Next step, staining!

[adam]

Great photos 4runner. Phil W does a great job at packing our kits for shipping.

[keloooe]

Yeah, he does an amazing packaging job, my LP was tight inside that box when it arrived!!!

[4runner]

First coat done, 4 cans of scotch downed. Didn't go overboard but could have probably kept soaking it in. Sorry for the photos, just an iphone at the moment.

Here is the back, It soaked it up more than the front. I could have just kept layering it on but resisted.

http://i48.tinypic.com/10s6nbm.jpg

Here is the front, you can notice the imperfections in the wood around the bridge. But its okay, i like a bit of character.

http://i46.tinypic.com/33jjp76.jpg

The neck came out heaps lighter than the body, and didn't soak it up like body.

http://i45.tinypic.com/29gijjs.jpg

And the head, will get a better photo tomoz.

http://i50.tinypic.com/10xyi2o.jpg

Having a ball doing it though. Cant wait until Sunday for the next coat.

[adam]

4runner can I ask, what paint are you using? And, did you really use 4 cans of it on the first coat? I'm interested from a pricing perspective, so if you can tell me what that first coat cost, it would be helpful.

[4runner]

Nah its was four cans of scotch/ Johnnie Walker i drank during the process.

Its black magic woman. Price was whatever was on the website, 40 bucks?

[Gavin1393]

I also wondered what colour you were using. The BMW is a little different in its application compared to the other colours. It is so important to apply and re-apply paint in a continuous motion to ensure that a balanced and even spread it achieved. You have to keep going with the BMW until the wood wont take any more. Once the first coat is applied it is difficult to get a more even colour into the wood which makes the first application so important.
It looks like you did a better job than I did on mine! I ended up sanding it all off and starting again!!!

[adam]

Ahh.. you should get along with the blokes from 4D guitars... I believe their staining regime includes copious amounts of Drambuie.

[keloooe]

Yes Adam, it does! I'm sure 4D will concur!

[4runner]

i noticed in the light today that the neck has come up very thin. Thinking i might be a bit more generous on the next coat

[keloooe]

Hey 4runner, did you use a paintbrush for the neck application??? DB says that the Rock Maple that the necks are made of is a dense wood, and needs more Wudtone, so using a small brush (about 5-10mm wide!) does the trick, they are only like $1-$2 each, but are really good!

[dingobass]

Hey Pest, you are really close, but the brush technique is for the neck finishing kits.

It is best to apply the BMW deep coat with a cloth as many thin coats is the best way to build the colour up. :D

[keloooe]

Ah, ok then!!!!
The brush technique is still great!

[wokkaboy]

Quote from adam on April 12, 2013, 20:22
Ahh.. you should get along with the blokes from 4D guitars... I believe their staining regime includes copious amounts of Drambuie.

haha yes we haven't had drambuie for a while, must get some more, but yes working on a damp sump inspires us at 4D Guitars

[sfkhooper]

Looking good mate. Can't wait to see the highlights applied!

[4runner]

Gone with a second coat of deep after 3 days. Looking a lot better now. See how it absorbs by Tuesday but i think it might need a little more sanding before the 3rd deep coat.

Had a blow out with my hanging apparatus. But no biggie.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2d6nwx0.jpg

Neck has come out heaps darker this time, although i almost dunked it in deep.

http://i45.tinypic.com/nldfeu.jpg

[sfkhooper]

The neck looks freakin awesome!! To be expected - harder, tighter grained wood. It's all coming together nicely!

[4runner]

Actually i had a look after it dried. It's looking awesome. I will give it a light sand and another coat on Tuesday. But i cant see it soaking to much more in.

[4runner]

I gave it a good sand back. Probably to much.

After the sanding before the next coat

http://i49.tinypic.com/34nqxad.jpg

But after applying the last deep coat, its looking awesome. It can only be described as vintage.

[4runner]

OKAY! latest update

All my base coats are done and i've added the gold highlights!

It doesn't look exactly as i had imagined and is my fault for initial sanding and furthermore sanding back between coats. But all good because my hollowbody order was completed today. WOOH! its going to look hot because i've made all my mistakes with the sg.

Hopefully you can see the gold in the following images.

http://i34.tinypic.com/9tptgw.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/2uxzj90.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/rwt18m.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/ibdj11.jpg

I always name my guitars and i was going to call this one the vintage zebra because of the sanding spots and the black and white grain. But now after the gold tint, im thinking the reverse tiger.

[keloooe]

Wow runner, that looks like it has been at more than a few club gigs!!! Yea, the gold shows up pretty well there, especially where it is lighter!

[MikeL]

Quote from 4runner on April 23, 2013, 19:14
OKAY! latest update

All my base coats are done and i've added the gold highlights!

I always name my guitars and i was going to call this one the vintage zebra because of the sanding spots and the black and white grain. But now after the gold tint, im thinking the reverse tiger.




I actually really like the effect, it reminds me of an old faithful pair of jeans..... Might not be the effect you wanted but I think it gives it a character that a standard build could never achieve :D

[4runner]

After seeing the gold in the daylight it has come up real streaky and the steel wool is not enough to remove the highs and lows. Next guitar i will wipe it away after putting it on with a clean rag.

[keloooe]

Did you apply the highlights like DB showed in the Wudtone body video?

[4runner]

Quote from keloooe on April 25, 2013, 11:34
Did you apply the highlights like DB showed in the Wudtone body video?

Yep sure did,

Rubbed it in then across the grain. I steel wooled it back first. Maybe i shouldnt have done that?

[keloooe]

Yea, most likely the steel wool that killed ya, DB should give you the correct answer!

[Gavin1393]

Hi 4runner,

The key thing about getting a good result from applying highlights is as follows:

1. Apply the highlights by using a small circular hand motion over the surface of the guitar.
2. Only go over the body once, resist any temptation to repeat the process.
3. When you have completed the task, wipe your rag ACROSS the grain.
4. Under no circumstances do you wipe with the grain when applying highlights.

If you got streaky results I suspect you may have inadvertently managed to drag highlights down the line of the grain......

[4runner]

The streaks where against the grain. I think the issue is that im not rubbing in my coats enough. I sanded back the gold and have added another base coat. This time i rubbed the crap outta the base and its easily my best coat yet! So obviously i was being to gentle/impatient.

[Gavin1393]

At least you have figured it out! Looking forward to the next instalment!

[4runner]

yep, this is my trial guitar. I'm expecting the hollowbody to arrive early next week. Woot!

[4runner]

Received my ES-1GT, beautiful piece of wood. I cant wait to finish the sg so i can have a go at this one!

[4runner]

Final coat on the SG done! time for some glue and solder.

[wokkaboy]

Quote from 4runner on May 7, 2013, 11:02
Final coat on the SG done! time for some glue and solder.

any photos of the SG after final coat 4runner ?

you will need a few cans of scotch and coke to calm the nerves before soldering and installing wiring to the ES-1GT ! best of luck

[4runner]

Hopefully i will be home early enough tonight to get some photos (Getting dark early in Victoria). The SG is a mess though, but its a trial for the ES.

[wokkaboy]

Quote from 4runner on May 7, 2013, 12:38
Hopefully i will be home early enough tonight to get some photos (Getting dark early in Victoria). The SG is a mess though, but its a trial for the ES.

so 4runner thats the SG in black magic woman ?

its a good idea to build a kit before the ES.

The SG wiring configuration is the same as the ES (ie 2 tone, 2 volumes, 1 x 3 way switch) so that will get you in practice to wire up the ES!

best of luck

[4runner]

Technically it is in black magic woman... But ive stuffed up and sanded back so often i'd call it more of a dead magic woman.

[wokkaboy]

Quote from 4runner on May 7, 2013, 12:52
Technically it is in black magic woman... But ive stuffed up and sanded back so often i'd call it more of a dead magic woman.

haha don't worry 4runner, my SG I entered in May GOTM I wasn't 100% happy with either, started off being cherry flamenco and the wudtone order for BMW got lost at Australia post so I didn't get a BMW coat on soon after so the sunburst blend wasn't anywhere near what I pictured it to be. But the back of the guitar come up a really nice vintage deep brown colour.

Maybe you took DB's advice of sand sand sand and sand again too far !

[4runner]

I dont think im a contender for the guitar of any month... But i specifically got this one because i wanted to try different thing sto get my technique straight and my last coat was easily the best so i'm happy with my skills. I was pretty gentle with my sanding, but i think my problems started by not giving it a good enough sand to start with. I was in to much of a hurry to have some fun.

[wokkaboy]

Quote from 4runner on May 7, 2013, 13:06
I dont think im a contender for the guitar of any month... But i specifically got this one because i wanted to try different thing sto get my technique straight and my last coat was easily the best so i'm happy with my skills. I was pretty gentle with my sanding, but i think my problems started by not giving it a good enough sand to start with. I was in to much of a hurry to have some fun.

yes 4runner the initial sand is really the most important part of preparing the body. This is a good learning curve for the ES kit. Take your time to carefully sand that before you apply any wudtone, and rub a damp (water) cloth over it should show if there is any glue near the binding or on the cap. Hopefully the factory has sorted out the glue problem by now.

As its a set neck you should make a piece of wood shaped to fit in the neck pipckup slot so you can hang it to dry, and whether you use different colours for the top and back/sides

have a good read of the forum there is plenty of good advice to get the best out of your ES build

[4runner]

I actually need to order some more wudtone for the ES. And i cant decide... I thought baout the black, but maybe the red... aarrgghh!! I need to order soon.

Thats another mistake i made with the SG was not placing a proper neck to hang it from. I will for the ES, be a crap load easier.

[wokkaboy]

Quote from 4runner on May 7, 2013, 13:16
I actually need to order some more wudtone for the ES. And i cant decide... I thought baout the black, but maybe the red... aarrgghh!! I need to order soon.

Thats another mistake i made with the SG was not placing a proper neck to hang it from. I will for the ES, be a crap load easier.

yer the ES weighs about 60% of the weight of the SG and probably half of a LP.

I'd recommend keep the colours to two colours on the ES, maybe 1 colour for back/sides and 1 colour on top. I went for a sunburst top plus a mahogany back sides, its alot more work 3 colours

the mahogany back/sides really worked well and choose maybe a lighter colour for the top or cherry flamenco would look amazing

[4runner]

I've already got the BMW waiting for me. So i think i will go black. It will look nice with the gold trims and stuff. Although i didnt get the gold tailpiece with mine. But not to worry, didnt look that flash anyway.

[wokkaboy]

Quote from 4runner on May 7, 2013, 13:38
I've already got the BMW waiting for me. So i think i will go black. It will look nice with the gold trims and stuff. Although i didnt get the gold tailpiece with mine. But not to worry, didnt look that flash anyway.

so is all the hardware gold except the tailpiece ? seems odd. Its got a trapeze style tailpiece hasn't it ? Is the tailpiece chrome ?

[dingobass]

Quote from 4runner on May 7, 2013, 13:38
I've already got the BMW waiting for me. So i think i will go black. It will look nice with the gold trims and stuff. Although i didnt get the gold tailpiece with mine. But not to worry, didnt look that flash anyway.

Hey 4runner,

The ES1G has just got the tunomatic style bridge, no tailpiece.

[4runner]

HHMM, thought i ordered the ES1-GT.

[adam]

Hi 4runner,

You DID order the ES-1GT, so you should have a kit there that has a gold trapeze tailpiece. If you don't, it means we sent you the ES-1G in error.

Is there a code on the box? It should say "ES-1GT" or "ES-1G".

If we've sent the wrong kit, we can fix that. We can send you the hardware from the ES-1GT, if you could kindly send us the hardware from the ES-1G. Or, we can credit you the difference in price between the ES-1GT and ES-1G.

Let me know which you prefer and I'll sort it out.

[4runner]

As long as the hardware fits the Guitar, i'm not really concerned mate. It definetly says ES-1G on the box, that i remember. I will check the hardware when i get home. But dont worry about replacing or refund or anything. I'm not that bothered by it.

I wouldnt knock back a tshirt though :-)

[4runner]

Back again... Thanks for the tshirt! i was much impressed.

http://i43.tinypic.com/1tqvs4.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vltg13.jpg