TL- electronic or pickup upgrades

[RocknRolf]

Hi everyone,

Got two upgrade questions that I couldn't find in the archives, your help is much appreciated!


GAS starts to play up again, but as opposed to building something new, I am thinking of perfecting what I have:

- TL-1A
- Kit bridge pickup
- GFS goldfoil Alnico Single coil < Link (https://www.guitarfetish.com/KP--GFS-Gold-Foil-Single-Coil-Alnico-Humbucker-Shell-Black--Kwikplug%E2%84%A2-Ready_p_21935.html) >
- Kit electronics
- Shielded

Some notes:
- Really like the sound of the GFS pickup, but want to make my Tele a true tele before building something else.
- Seldomly play the kits bridge position as I find it a bit too harsh.

Questions:
- What electronic updates would you recommend and how will it make a difference?
- I have seen a set of Tele Wilkinsons, tone riders and fender 52 classic's, Will I notice a big difference in swapping these for the kit pickups?


Thanks!
Again your input is much appreciated :-)

[McCreed]

Well, a change is as good as a holiday, right?

Like you, I have taken the same path of re-working some of my previous builds in lieu of building anything new.
I really don't need any more than I already have (13) and can't justify adding more.

But anyway, do I understand that you're wanting to go with a traditional tele bridge and neck pickups?

I can testify to the Tonerider Hot Classics set. Great value and sound. I've heard good things about the Vintage Plus as well, but have no direct experience with them. FWIW, I typically don't like the tone of most tele neck pickups on their own (I find them too dark or even muddy) but the Hot Classics neck sounds really good IMO.

Personally, I would probably choose Toneriders over Wilkinson. I haven't played the Wilkinson tele pickups, but I've found Wilkinsons to be a bit hit or miss with their other models, and I've had good results with all the TR's I've owned.

As for electronics, changing out the kit pots and switch aren't going to change or improve your tone IMO. You should gain in reliability of the components in the long term if you upgraded to CTS, Bournes, CRL, Oak Grigsby etc, but unless the kit pots or switch are faulty/noisy I don't think you'll notice a difference in performance TBH.

Also, if you didn't expand the control cavity routing beforehand, you would need to do so if upgrading to 24mm size pots. IIRC, the cavity only needs about 1.5-2mm widening, so not a big deal, but should be taken into consideration since the guitar is already finished. However you can get CTS and Bournes pots in 13mm.

[Andyxlh]

Agree with McCreed on everything
I have a Tele with the hot classics which are superb.
But I have another, the TL51 model, with the toneriders vintage classics, I like them at least as much. They bite through without sounding brittle
I upgraded to the Pitbull Tele electronics upgrade kit on the 51, widening the hole with a chisel for the wider pots.
I’d recommend the orange capacitor as a minimum upgrade
Best mod I have ever made? On the 51 I wired the tone with a pull-up pot the puts both pickups in series. Without pulling it up, the guitar is a totally standard Tele. You can go from chicken scratching’ to full throated roar by pulling that thing up, I highly recommend it, it’s a huge laugh when playing with others as they wonder how you get that tone out of that country geetar!

[RocknRolf]

...-and holidays are good!

Thank you, yes I meant traditional tele bridge and neck pickups. To be honest, I have never played a traditional TL neck pickup, so I will rewatch some of the review videos with that in mind and eliminate the Wilkinsons from the search. <Hard to test anything as a lefty...>

Would you say the tone riders are a big improvement over the kit pickups?

I have no problems yet with scratchy pots or faulty switches, so I will leave them for now. I did change to a Pure tone-multi contact jack following Simon's advice after the kit jack started getting noisy. MAJOR improvement!

Thank you!

[RocknRolf]

Hahaha Great idea!! gives me something to do other than just switching pickups, and sounds like a solid addition!

Setting the pickup in series will turn the bridge and neck into a humbucker, correct?

Thanks!

[Andyxlh]

Hahaha Great idea!! gives me something to do other than just switching pickups, and sounds like a solid addition!

Setting the pickup in series will turn the bridge and neck into a humbucker, correct?

Thanks!
Yes kind of, like a giant one
Replace your tone cap with an orange one from Pitbull too, nicer when u roll off, and I use the tone on the Tele, not on the humbucker guitars

[Simon Barden]

Two of my three Teles have overwound neck pickups (all Iron Gear Steel Foundry overwounds) which really help to give a clearer and louder output that balances the bridge pickup. The other has a Bare Knuckles Strat pickup in the neck, again giving that much clearer sound and more balanced output level.

Be aware that to do a series pickup mod, you'll have to break the ground connection to either the neck pickup cover or the bridge pickup baseplate and run a separate ground wire in its place (all depends on the order you arrange the pickups in for series mode as to which one you need to do.

I've just fitted a BK Tele bridge pickup in one of mine, and had to ground the baseplate separately because I needed to swap the pickup wires over to get the bridge+neck combination the same polarity, and it was easier to mod the bridge (snip a link and solder a wire on) than do something similar to the much smaller neck pickup.

I'd certainly agree that the vintage style neck pickups can sound dull and weak, especially compared to the bridge; partly due to the physically smaller pickup with less windings and partly because the grounded nickel-silver cover adds a lot of capacitance that takes a fair bit of treble off the tone.

[Simon Barden]

And if you are going to change the pickups, then I'd go and change the pots and switches as well whilst you're at it. Always easier to solder to clean pots, and better pots and a switch will last you for many years.

'Proper' Tele pots have solid shafts and grub screw knobs, so if you want to get more authentic, then I'd go for short-shaft solid shaft CTS pots and some matching knurled knobs as well. You'll probably also find that the kit switch tip won't fit properly on a CRL or Oak Grigsby switch, so I'd get a a new one of those as well.

The costs soon mount up, but no-one said this was a cheap hobby....

[RocknRolf]

Yes kind of, like a giant one
Replace your tone cap with an orange one from Pitbull too, nicer when u roll off, and I use the tone on the Tele, not on the humbucker guitars

Do you change it for the 0.022MF or 0.047MF?

I just had a look at the series-mod, is there any advantage of having a push-pull pot over a 4-way switch for this mod?

[RocknRolf]

Thanks Simon,
so much great info as usual, much appreciated!

The bare knuckles are priced a bit high for me, I probably wouldn't make them sound better than a slightly more affordable option :-)
The Iron gear look like a solid option though, bit cheaper than the tone riders, but they might come out similar after int. shipping.


'Proper' Tele pots have solid shafts and grub screw knobs, so if you want to get more authentic, then I'd go for short-shaft solid shaft CTS pots and some matching knurled knobs as well. You'll probably also find that the kit switch tip won't fit properly on a CRL or Oak Grigsby switch, so I'd get a a new one of those as well.

The costs soon mount up, but no-one said this was a cheap hobby....

Ow, I am not too bothered about authenticity, with 'true' tele I meant, pickup wise. Just after changing the pickups so that it is a tele-sound-wise. And no it is not a cheap hobby, but we do learn a lot for what we pay haha.

[Simon Barden]

I fitted a 0.015uF Russian-made PIO cap on the Tele I just fitted a BK to (it was a Boot Camp range pickup, so cheaper than their more 'bespoke' range). Even that at full roll-off is too dark and muffled for me to use, but you get good controllability over most of the tone pot travel. The tone cap values make almost no difference to the sound to my ears with the tone on 10, and the theory calcs show it's fractions of a dB change at high frequencies. It's more the effect it has on the sound with the pot rolled down that you need to consider, and that's very much personal taste.

[Andyxlh]

Yes, I grounded the cover for the neck pickup seperate to the windings when doing the series mod.
I find the balance on the toneriders bridge/neck is good on both the hot wound and classics

[jonwhitear]

I just had a look at the series-mod, is there any advantage of having a push-pull pot over a 4-way switch for this mod?

I fitted a four-way Oak Grigsby to my tele to add the series position. The stock pitbull control plate slot didn't allow enough travel for that switch, so I had to extend the slot and shave a little off the switch lever. If I'd though about it, I would probably have gone with the push-pull instead, although if that's a full size pot, it might present it's opwn problems with regard to control cavity size and control plate positioning.

[McCreed]

The stock pitbull control plate slot didn't allow enough travel for that switch, so I had to extend the slot and shave a little off the switch lever.

That's not uncommon even with genuine Fender control plates as they just weren't designed with an extra position in mind.

[RocknRolf]

I fitted a four-way Oak Grigsby to my tele to add the series position. The stock pitbull control plate slot didn't allow enough travel for that switch, so I had to extend the slot and shave a little off the switch lever. If I'd though about it, I would probably have gone with the push-pull instead, although if that's a full size pot, it might present it's opwn problems with regard to control cavity size and control plate positioning.

Thanks Jon, will keep that in mind.
I am not afraid to widen the control cavity, it also sounds more straightforward than extending the slot. I did the bridge cavity a while back (after finishing) and although it is not ideal, with some tape as protection, it is fine. Also, I quite like the idea of a push-pull pot more, when you think about operating it mid-playing.


Though Simon said it is not an affordable hobby, together we make it more affordable, eliminating unnecessary mistakes! Thanks everyone ;-)
I will progress and finding when I get to it.

[Andyxlh]

The pull is great because is bypasses the switch, allowing you to drop in and out of standard Tele, leaving the position as you set it, at least I found it simpler
I did remove a little timber from the bottom of the cavity for the longer pot, using a chisel

[ILRGuitars]

Here's my two cents. I made a Tele with an Artist Bullbucker humbucker in the neck and a Tonerider Hot classic in the bridge, 3 way switch, 50's wiring with no treble bleed, 500k push-push pot in the volume and 250k pot for the tone ( I think? Did a lot of mods before I was happy with the result). I find the push push pots so much easier to use. I played around with the capacitors as they are really cheap from Jaycar and easy to test with a set of jumper leads. Pots are cheap and readily available too. I used the pots supplied with the kit to test, then ordered upgraded versions. The setup gives me everything from smooth jazz to great blues, screaming punk to clean funk and everything in between. Great for taking to parties where any style might be played.
Pots, capacitors, switches, wiring styles are all the cheapest and easiest thing to mod on a Tele. A good set of pickups, a good amp and a trip down the long road of finding "that" tone is all part of the fun of building.

[Simon Barden]

Push-push are definitely easier to use than push-pull pots, though some people prefer push-pull if they are in the habit of hitting the knobs with their hands and inadvertently bringing in the switch. Very unlikely on a Tele though with the standard switch-first arrangement. Far more likely on a Strat's volume knob. It all comes down to how you play.

[Andyxlh]

Push-push are definitely easier to use than push-pull pots, though some people prefer push-pull if they are in the habit of hitting the knobs with their hands and inadvertently bringing in the switch. Very unlikely on a Tele though with the standard switch-first arrangement. Far more likely on a Strat's volume knob. It all comes down to how you play.

Although I do like the visual clue with the push-pull of being able to tell if it is engaged at a glance, saying that I didn't know there was a push-push type!

[Simon Barden]

You still get the same visual clue as the knob still sits higher when engaged.

[ILRGuitars]

I have the control plate reversed and play pretty hard (who doesn't after a few drinks at a party?) and don't have a problem with it popping out or in....the volume pot that is.

[Andyxlh]

You still get the same visual clue as the knob still sits higher when engaged.

Ok, I like that idea better then, I could just slap it and turn it on, easier than grabbing it and lifting
I do prefer the switch option to the 4-way slider option either way

[Simon Barden]

I had a Warmoth Tele with a 4-way switch. I 'd much prefer it had had a 3-way switch and a switched pot.

[McCreed]

Hmmmm... you guys have got me thinking (never a good thing :o).

I used to have the 4-way switch in my Squier Classic Vibe 50's tele. I don't own that one anymore, but still have 3 other teles and I like the idea of the push-push pot. I might convert one of them to this arrangement just to make it a bit different from the other more traditional set ups.

I have been looking for another project... 😬

[Simon Barden]

Just do it.

[Andyxlh]

I really like it, sounds great with the series mod.

[fender3x]

I haven't tried the GFS foil pickups. May not be the vibe you're looking for, but I have a set of Lil Punchers (modern vintage) that I like pretty well. With both coils engaged they are a but thicker sounding than standard Tele, but not quite as thick as a standard humbucker. They are also pretty silent. I think they sound pretty good in single coil mode as well--really pretty much like you'd expect a Tele to sound. I don't have that many electric 6 strings so it's nice to be able to go back and forth.

One thing that I have generally not liked in Teles (maybe the only thing) is that the neck pickup generally sounds thin, and sometimes harsh as you said. In that regard the Li'l Punchers do well in either single coil or humbucking modes.

I looked at some youtube with the gold foils and the Toneriders. They both sound good on youtube ;-)

If I was to build another guitar with Tele pups, I am guessing I'd go for some sort of vintage tele pickup at the bridge. There's a reason why the tele bridge sound gets so much love. But I am not sure anyone really loves the sound of a tele neck pickup. I'd be inclined to use something better matched to the bridge or a little hotter in that position. Maybe a P90? [edit] I have a (wealthy) friend with a Tom Anderson Tele with a P-90 in the bridge position. It's one of the best sounding Tele's I've ever heard.

[RocknRolf]

Read into push-push pots. Found a lot of people saying they are having reliability issues with them and turned push-pull. That being said, if it goes, I'll put in a push-pull.


I haven't tried the GFS foil pickups. May not be the vibe you're looking for, but I have a set of Lil Punchers (modern vintage) that I like pretty well. With both coils engaged they are a but thicker sounding than standard Tele, but not quite as thick as a standard humbucker. They are also pretty silent. I think they sound pretty good in single coil mode as well--really pretty much like you'd expect a Tele to sound. I don't have that many electric 6 strings so it's nice to be able to go back and forth.

One thing that I have generally not liked in Teles (maybe the only thing) is that the neck pickup generally sounds thin, and sometimes harsh as you said. In that regard the Li'l Punchers do well in either single coil or humbucking modes.

I looked at some youtube with the gold foils and the Toneriders. They both sound good on youtube ;-)

Had a look at the lil punchers, they are pretty neath! I honestly don't know how a Tele neck pickup would sound through my THR and it is hard to go off the YT video's as there is so much more to sound than just the pickups. In saying that though; comparing the tone rider TRT1 and TRT2 (same player and setup) I found the TRT1's sound much warmer and less trebly. They are my no.1 choice atm.
I checked out the GFS, Iron gear, Bare knuckle pickups, but getting them to Australia will bring them up to the same price point or way higher than the tone riders, making my choice a bit easier.
All in all the reason for going for a more original Tele set is that it will help me justify (through differentiation) a JM-style P90 build that I have been flirting with for a while. :-)

[ILRGuitars]

Oh dear....How many monsters have I created?!? Just remember though...if you want a pure Tele, then make a pure Tele. If you want something different then make something different. Saying that, I changed the pickup configuration 3 times, electronics 4 times, wiring style twice, etc, etc, until I got what I wanted. Something with good tone and versatile for my needs, not just a Tele sound. The Artist Bullbuckers do sound pretty good when split but they are not pure Tele neck sound, like a cross between Strat neck and Tele neck.

[RocknRolf]

Oh dear....How many monsters have I created?!? Just remember though...if you want a pure Tele, then make a pure Tele. If you want something different then make something different. Saying that, I changed the pickup configuration 3 times, electronics 4 times, wiring style twice, etc, etc, until I got what I wanted. Something with good tone and versatile for my needs, not just a Tele sound. The Artist Bullbuckers do sound pretty good when split but they are not pure Tele neck sound, like a cross between Strat neck and Tele neck.

Hahaha, I don't know man, perhaps only to have a baseline reference to the Tele and after that, I'll probably throw everything out of the window and start tinkering with everything.

Like you said:


Pots, capacitors, switches, wiring styles are all the cheapest and easiest thing to mod on a Tele. A good set of pickups, a good amp and a trip down the long road of finding "that" tone is all part of the fun of building.

[RocknRolf]

So started with some preparations.

1. Check whether the Tele neck pickup ring fits: That was a no. By 1mm the holes didn't line up, so couldn't drill new holes next to it. Of course, I would be able to fill and re-drill... But more importantly, I didn't like the way it looked, see picture.
I am now considering a 3-ply white or off white pickguard, see picture.

2. Installed connectors: Initially it was my idea to be able to switch pickups quickly on this guitar and so I had bought these connectors (see picture). In the meantime, I have come back from this idea but still wanted to see whether it worked. It does!!


En suivre, To be continued!

[McCreed]

If you have an old pickguard, you could make your own pickup surround to accommodate that neck pickup.

41671

I have done them mostly by hand, and it takes a little while but the end result is something that is fit for purpose.

My other suggestion would be going the the white pickgaurd like in the photo, but cutting back to expose more of that lovely flame!

[RocknRolf]

To be honest I did not expect that I wasn't going to like the black pick up ring. gold hardware with the sunburst is proven a hard one to aesthetically. I personally do not like the reduced pickguards, but as you say don't want to cover the flame either.

So got some thinking to do.

[McCreed]

To be honest I did not expect that I wasn't going to like the black pick up ring.

That's the beauty of making your own. You can use what colour you like.
Maybe look on eBay for a cheap tele pickguard. IIRC, a standard size tele p/g has enough area to make 3 HB-sized surrounds, so if you stuff one up you get two more goes!

Maybe a 3-ply brown tortoise shell one would look nice????


edit:

Or something like this?: eBay Link (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/112072388793?hash=item1a1808f0b9:g:GzYAAOSw-YVXnGGX)

[ILRGuitars]

41691

This is what I did with my pickguard to show off the quilted top.

[Andyxlh]

41691

This is what I did with my pickguard to show off the quilted top.

That looks great!
What’s the bit rear of the bridge for?

[ILRGuitars]

Covering up a mistake! ha ha.

[RocknRolf]

Thanks guys,

IRL, really dig that quilted blue!


I think I really shot myself in the foot this time:
1. Being a lefty is challenging
2. Being a lefty wanting/needing the gold variant of the Tonerider trt1's.... even more challenging :-D

Can't get them anywhere at the moment.

Also decided to go with a full pickguard. After making some photoshop mockups I realised that aesthetically it was the only thing that made sense given the sunburst/gold hardware, without changing over to black hardware, and then one has to ask oneself...
//When you go as far as changing all the hardware on a guitar, can't you just better build a new one....//

So, I'll have to wait till the pickups become available again...

[fender3x]

Just to play devil's advocate, you can make pickup rings out of wood. I made these out of thinly sliced maple: 41759 An advantage to wood is that you can make the color match the guitar if you want to, so you'd get the color right and show most of the flame maple.

That said, I think it looks good with the full tele pickguard as well.

Having a second set of hardware is not a bad thing... all you need is another body and neck. This is also a solution to the problem of whether to do a traditional tele or a non-traditional. You've got the hardware to do both ;-)

[ILRGuitars]

As if you're going to stop at building only one guitar! ah ha ha. So much to learn.

[RocknRolf]

@Fender3x Yes you may play the devils advocate. Totally dig that solution, way better than a prominent cream or black ring.


Having a second set of hardware is not a bad thing... all you need is another body and neck. This is also a solution to the problem of whether to do a traditional tele or a non-traditional. You've got the hardware to do both ;-)


As if you're going to stop at building only one guitar! ah ha ha. So much to learn.

You/We are all just a bunch of hopeless enablers.

I just keep telling myself that my playing skills do not need another guitar, let's see how long that statement will stand, haha.

[fender3x]

I just keep telling myself that my playing skills do not need another guitar, let's see how long that statement will stand, haha.


I know exactly what you mean! Someone wise once told me that anything that makes the guitar more fun will lead to playing more, and in turn that will make you s better player. See?!? You need another guitar to get better so that you feel you deserve more guitars.

What was that about enablers?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[RocknRolf]

I know exactly what you mean! Someone wise once told me that anything that makes the guitar more fun will lead to playing more, and in turn that will make you s better player.

I can support that claim.
Just bought a NuX Duotime dual delay with looper, that thing is just amazing! Not only does it sound like a time machine, you could say it is one: without noticing it, I spend an hour making funky loops and backing tracks :-).

[RocknRolf]

Slowly some postal packages manage to find this part of the world.
Latest is this graphtech nut.

Now I looked everywhere for a flat black lefty nut but was out of luck and ended up ordering this one.
Can anyone tell me if the radius of this nut will suit the Kits neck? It is a bit more curved than the kits nut.

I sincerely hope it will as it will be the third nut I ordered for this guitar :rolleyes:

[Simon Barden]

I don’t think that nut will work at all. Unless something has changed a lot, the Pit Bull necks have a flat bottom to the nut slot.

You have a nut that is:
a) radiused at the bottom to fit a Fender ‘veneer’ board where the basic neck is radiused on top (as opposed to a ‘slab’ board like the kits have where the top of the main neck and the bottom of the board are flat) and the bottom of the fretboard also radiused to match it, and the nut slot follows that curve.
b) for a variation on that curved slot bottom where the truss rod channel is exposed and the tab on the bottom of the nut sits in that exposed channel hole.

I’ve worked on Fender necks with flat, curved and curved + notch bottomed nuts.

Try fitting that nut on a flat bottomed slot and it will only touch at the two tips and you’ll never get it glued on firmly.

I really think you’ll need to get a set of good nut files and either make your own from blanks or use them to change the slot angles so you can use a reversed R/H Fender-style nut. You’ll also find it a lot easier to get a low slot height and good action on all your guitars.

[McCreed]

Actually those nuts are intended to be used for either a flat bottom nut slot or a curved bottom. It's not optimal IMO, but that's what Graphtec does.
For a flat bottom slot, you have 3 points of contact. They generally still need a bit of sanding on the bottom so you do gain a bit more contact area on the ends. For a curved bottom, the middle "tab" gets filed away.

Screenshot from the Graph Tech product page:
42014

As for the radius (on top) once you get you string slots cut to the right depth, you should reprofile the top of the nut anyway.
You don't want the strings full diameter below the top of the slot except for the B and treble E.

[RocknRolf]

Thanks guys, as McCreed says this is how graph tech sells them for flat bottom necks as well as curved. I too not find it ideal, but it was the only lefty I could find for this neck.
I am going to dive into the world of nut filing and shaping, something that I somehow thought to be able to avoid.

Anyway, I am sure the upgrades are going to be worth my time and learning.

Other than the nut, the push pull pot is in, now waiting for the pickups and pickguard...

[Simon Barden]

I do think that's rather poor and a definite bodge. As the nut is one of the main contact points between the strings and the guitar, I'd want it sitting properly if it was mine. Definitely a drop of CA rather than wood glue on all the points if you do use it like that.

[Simon Barden]

You don't want the strings full diameter below the top of the slot except for the B and treble E.

You definitely don't want the top of the nut too high above the strings, but exactly how much string is showing (if any) above the top, is really a matter of personal preference e.g. I file down so the nut is level with the top of all the strings.

The nut slot needs to be deep enough so that the mid point of the strings can touch the sides. Depending on how and how much you bend the strings, you may need the slots a little higher than this minimum depth to stop them popping out when bending (especially if you've used a V-profile fret file rather than a straight-sided one).

After that, any extra height to the slot doesn't have any effect on the strings.

The real point of cutting the nut height down so the fret depth is minimal are the two end 'teeth' on the nut. With deep nut slots, the end teeth are tall, and they are only half the width of the other 'teeth' on the nut. Being on the ends, they are also very vulnerable to being knocked or caught on clothing. If they are level with, or slightly lower than the string, they are unlikely to snag or catch. If you leave them say a couple of mm taller, then a) the teeth are far more likely to catch on something and b) if caught or knocked, the leverage on the base of the tooth if tall is far greater than if it's short, so far more likely to snap off. I've seen that happen a couple of times.

Rounding over the ends of the nut and on the headstock side also helps prevent any snagging (and also the risk of you hurting a finger on a sharp edge. The only edge you need to leave at right-angles is the fretboard edge of the nut. You can very gently round over the top front edge, but if you have very shallow nut slots there's always a risk that you move the front of the nut slot back a bit and throw out the intonation.

[RocknRolf]

Thanks for the extra explanations and concerns Simon. I am of the same opinion, but after three nuts I temporarily give in. Most likely I will buy a blank at some point and enjoy some shaping :-)

[McCreed]

You don't want the strings full diameter below the top of the slot except for the B and treble E.


You definitely don't want the top of the nut too high above the strings, but exactly how much string is showing (if any) above the top, is really a matter of personal preference e.g. I file down so the nut is level with the top of all the strings.

I thought I had put in a line about "opinions vary" regarding how much string is exposed (or not) above the nut, but apparently I only thought it, but didn't type it. So, there you go... two different opinions.

[Simon Barden]

It's not two different opinions, as our opinions are basically the same (file the top of the nut right down), but our preferences are slightly different (I am quite a pedantic person ;) ).

Technically it's all about minimising the risk of a bit breaking off the nut and making the guitar unplayable.

I normally use a set of strings for setting up a guitar and then replace them once that's done, so it's easy enough to arrange that the last thing I do before swapping them is to file down the nut until I'm just catching the top of the set-up strings, then remove them to sand smooth and polish the nut before fitting the new strings.

[RocknRolf]

So I finally received all the pieces:
- Toneriders (vintage plus) / Pickguard, push/pull pot, orange cap 0.22, and tusq-nut.

Now I put everything together aaaand,.. I'm in two minds:
- It's a shame to cover up the veneer with a pickguard
- Yet, it would also be a shame not to use the tone riders just because of that.

In the picture you can see: 1. how it was (with GFS goldfoil neck), 2. How I can use an (ugly) black ring to mount the tele pickup, 3. fit the pickguard.

I am thinking to mount the pickguard using double-sided thin tape, chop the gold screws and glue them to the pickguard, this way I can always remove the pickguard without damaging the top.

Anyone done something like this before?
It actually really is an in-between solution to push on whilst I make up my mind :rolleyes:

[McCreed]

I still advocate for making your own pickup mounting ring out of a material of your choice that will be an enhancement more than the "ugly black" one.

Also, I wouldn't use double-sided tape on the finish if it was mine. I have no idea what's in the adhesive, but there's always a chance it could react with the finish over time. And, that stuff sticks like s**t to a blanket!

[RocknRolf]

I still advocate for making your own pickup mounting ring out of a material of your choice that will be an enhancement more than the "ugly black" one.

Also, I wouldn't use double-sided tape on the finish if it was mine. I have no idea what's in the adhesive, but there's always a chance it could react with the finish over time. And, that stuff sticks like s**t to a blanket!

Thanks McCreed, I will do some deep thinking on what material/colour/shape will be the best solution.
And agree with your assessment of the tape. If I was sure about it all, I wouldn't have posted this :D

[fender3x]

I like pic 1 and 3 best, FWIW. I haven't heard the GFS pickup, but if it performs as advertised that's the version I'd use. If it were me, I'd try it first, and go to one of the others if you don't like it.

I have a set of GFS lil'Punchers that are also advertised as "modern vintage" like the gold foils. I like them a lot. You could put a coil cut on on a push-pull pot or a microswitch to get the best of both worlds and see the veneer.... Just a thought ;-)

[fender3x]

i agree with McCreed on both counts BTW. Tape over finish is a bad idea for the reason he said, and also because it can just plain pull the finish when you take off the pickguard.

I have made pickup rings from wood, and the nice thing about that is how easily and well wood takes finish--paint or stain. It would probably even take veneer. I made mine out of maple, but if I had do to it again, I'd probably use something softer to make them easier to sand and less likely to split with the grain.

[RocknRolf]

I like pic 1 and 3 best, FWIW. I haven't heard the GFS pickup, but if it performs as advertised that's the version I'd use. If it were me, I'd try it first, and go to one of the others if you don't like it.

I have a set of GFS lil'Punchers that are also advertised as "modern vintage" like the gold foils. I like them a lot. You could put a coil cut on on a push-pull pot or a microswitch to get the best of both worlds and see the veneer.... Just a thought ;-)


You know what?! that is a great suggestion: I haven't even listened to the tonerider, so I'll switch between the tonerider and gfs and then decide which one I like best. If I like the GFS, she stays the same, if I like the tonerider best,...I'll go pickguard.
I thought hard about other pickup ring options and made some mockups but I preferred the pickguard over other options with the tele pickup.

I bought some connectors a while back (one is already on the GFS) So I could swap pickups quickly in a test scenario, so I think they'll come in handy now. I'll keep you guys posted on the differences between those two pickups.

Re. coil split, it is the single-coil version in a humbucker size. (See link) (https://www.guitarfetish.com/KP--GFS-Gold-Foil-Single-Coil-Alnico-Humbucker-Shell-Black--Kwikplug%E2%84%A2-Ready_p_21935.html)

[fender3x]

I'd also be curious how much difference there is between the tele pickup and the GFS in single coil mode...particularly since that's something I may eventually try ;-)

[RocknRolf]

I'd also be curious how much difference there is between the tele pickup and the GFS in single coil mode...particularly since that's something I may eventually try ;-)Soo I have been testing!

Definitely the Tonerider trt1. Though the gfs isn't bad at all, the trt1 has more clarity and string separation. The gfs has a very bass heavy tone (always have found that) which give it warmth, but at the same time you'll lose some clarity.

Also felt the trt1 was a better fit in the middle position. So this means operation pickguard is a go haha

[fender3x]

Now you know! Great to get the sound you like

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[RocknRolf]

Hi Guys,

Finally got to modding the TL.

The black fibreboard of the Tonerider bridge pickup does not fit through the kits bridge plate by about 1mm.

1. Would you sand the fibreboard back?
2. Would you widen the bridge plate?
3. Would you order a different bridge plate?


The same actually goes for the shaft of the push-pull pot.


Thanks, and Merry Christmas to you all!

[McCreed]

The holes in the stock control plate are drilled for metric pots with 8mm diameter threaded bushings. If you got an imperial size replacement pot (CTS, Bourne etc) they will have a 3/8" threaded bushing (approx. 9.5mm).
You can drill the control plate holes out but you want to do it incrementally (8.5mm > 9mm > 9.5) and drill from the front at a medium speed. The sharper the bit, the better. This will help minimise damage to the chrome plating (lifting/flaking).

As for the bridge and bridge pickup, that's something I've never encountered. I'm not at home atm, otherwise I'd check a Tonerider tele p/up against a spare PBG bridge I have. I would think the PGB bridge would be a standard opening unless there was defect in manufacture.

So the bobbin won't fit through the hole even passed at an angle? (ie: not perfectly perpendicular).

FWIW, all my tele bridge pickups are adjusted so the bobbin is above the bridge plate. So with the coil being narrower than the bobbin, it may not need to pass through squarely. If that makes sense :confused:

In all these years I've never paid attention to the relationship of the hole/bobbin size. Pickups have always mounted just fine with having to think about it.

edit to add:

I would not sand the bobbin. I'd be concerned about the fibreboard not liking it. Maybe delaminating, or going "fuzzy" (???)

[RocknRolf]

Thanks, I would appreciate it if you could check your tonerider.
I have tried on the angle, all ways possible. As I said I just miss about that 1mm clearance to squeeze it in.

I'll have another go tomorrow morning see if I missed something, but I am 97% sure there was no other way.

I'll post some pics and measurements too.

[Simon Barden]

Being a left-handed bridge, there's a chance it may be slightly different in hole size to the right-handed ones. Logically it shouldn't be, but anything can happen with these kits.

[McCreed]

Being a left-handed bridge, there's a chance it may be slightly different in hole size to the right-handed ones. Logically it shouldn't be, but anything can happen with these kits.

Ahhh, good point! I forgot about the lefty aspect. As you say, it shouldn't be... but...

[McCreed]

Thanks, I would appreciate it if you could check your tonerider.

Likely won't be home until Tuesday-ish, but happy to give it a go if you don't find a solution before then.
Post a pic if you can. Maybe an email to PBG too.

[RocknRolf]

Ahh of course! The curse of the lefty :-D

I will check measurements with other bridges and with tonerider.

Will try once more to carefully wiggle it through. I stopped as I was getting worried damaging the pickup, as the coil was jammed against the hole in the bridge plate while squeezing through the fibre top.


Edit: ps. The kit pickup has been in there for 1.5yrs.

[RocknRolf]

Likely won't be home until Tuesday-ish, but happy to give it a go if you don't find a solution before then.
Post a pic if you can. Maybe an email to PBG too.Thanks, I will keep you updated.

[McCreed]

Ahh of course! The curse of the lefty :-D

I will check measurements with other bridges and with tonerider.

Will try once more to carefully wiggle it through. I stopped as I was getting worried damaging the pickup, as the coil was jammed against the hole in the bridge plate while squeezing through the fibre top.


Edit: ps. The kit pickup has been in there for 1.5yrs.

Ah yes, I forgot about that. I suppose it could be a wonky bobbin. Maybe compare bobbin dimensions while you're at it. I'll be interested to see what your measurements are.

[RocknRolf]

I have put all the measurements of the kit pickup, TRT1 and the hole in the bridge plate in the visual below.

Comparing the kit bridge plate with Gotoh and some other bridges on the market I found out they all use the same measurements. As you can see in the visual from Tonerider the measurement I took and those given by Tonerider match(+/-).

So the question becomes: If all the bridges are the same and tonerider makes their pickups in this slightly larger size, how do other people squeeze them through?

Again it is likely a matter of 1mm to clear, but I feel uncomfortable pushing one side of the coil harder up against the hole in the bridge plate, whilst trying to squeeze the other side through.


I could always ask tonerider if this is a familiar problem, or sand a bit from the bridge away, or a bit from the fibreboard. :confused:

[Simon Barden]

The diagrams for Gotoh I’ve seen indicate a 74mm or 74.2mm long pickup hole, 19.8mm wide, which should be just big enough to fit the Tonerider through. I think I’ve had to push DiMarzio and Iron Gear Tele bridge pickups through the hole before as they are a tight fit. Finding dimensions for other makes isn’t easy. I’m sure the original Fender dimensions would have been imperial, say 2 9/10” x 3/4”.

So to me the kit bridge hole is a bit smaller than standard whilst the Tonerider pickup is a vintage Fender size.

Only got my mobile for the next few days, so my ability to look things up and give a miore definite answer is limited.

[RocknRolf]

I must've just checked the ones that were similar, because the first gotoh I open now is 74mm.

Honestly I am not happy to spend 100$ on another bridge now. So I will probably try to use the dremel and sand both sides away 0.5mm to make it fit. Also because I think McCreed might be right that the fibreboard will fray or in any way has a higher likelihood of looking off than sanding the bridge.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[RocknRolf]

Fixed!
Yet attention for anyone attempting something similar, the gold on the bridge is like a sticker.
I used the sanding drum on my rotary tool to widen the pickup space, then applied 2second glue to keep the gold in place, viola.

[Simon Barden]

It is normally very thin gold plate over chrome (sometimes nickel). A light rub over with metal polish and it’s gone. i can well believe that it doesn’t adhere to the underlying plate that well.

Never try and polish gold hardware with metal polish of any kind. Water and a soft cloth is the most you should use. However, being gold, it is pretty unreactive so anything on the surface should normally just rub off.

[RocknRolf]

Yes, I already assumed it was going to react the way it was, so somewhat prepared.

[McCreed]

Glad to hear you got it sorted Rolf.
It's another example of little PITA things that should never have needed doing had it been done properly at the factory.
But it is what it is.

FWIW, if I was opening up the pickup hole in the bridge by only .5mm x 2 , I would have done it with a combination of a flat file for the sides and a round file on the radiused ends. It would be much slower going, but it may have been gentler on the plating (or maybe not given how thin it is). Sometimes even a dremel on it lowest setting can be too aggressive for some jobs. Also, from what I've found, the finest grit with those sanding drums is still quite coarse.

At the end of the day you got it done without further expense. That's all that matters.

[RocknRolf]

Little update:
Decided to first just swap the pickups and change the Tusq nut before installing the push-pull pot for parallel switching.
Didn't want to have the guitar on the bench longer since it is my only electric and I have some time to play this week.
Also because I haven't found a schematic for volume push-pull parallel switching. Still going through the archives.


Regarding the difference in sound, I couldn't be happier! It is a massive difference. So much more clarity and dynamics.

[McCreed]

Good result!


Also because I haven't found a schematic for volume push-pull parallel switching. Still going through the archives.

Most diagrams you'll find online do show the push-pull on the tone pot, however you can use the push/pull pot on the volume the exact same way. Just connect the wires shown on the tone pot version to the switch portion of the push/pull volume pot. Think of the switch as a separate entity (even though it's physically connected to a pot).

I'm going to be doing the same mod to one of my teles, except I'm using a push/push pot.

Here's a good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hHPxAQu4NA

And remember you need to ground the cover of the neck pickup separately (covered in the video).

EDIT TO ADD:
Not to split hairs here, but technically the mod is "series switching" not parallel switching as you stated above.
The standard tele switching configuration puts the neck & bridge pickups in parallel when used together already. The switch (via push/pull, 4-way etc) puts them in series.

[RocknRolf]

Good result!



Most diagrams you'll find online do show the push-pull on the tone pot, however you can use the push/pull pot on the volume the exact same way. Just connect the wires shown on the tone pot version to the switch portion of the push/pull volume pot. Think of the switch as a separate entity (even though it's physically connected to a pot).

I'm going to be doing the same mod to one of my teles, except I'm using a push/push pot.

Here's a good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hHPxAQu4NA

And remember you need to ground the cover of the neck pickup separately (covered in the video).

EDIT TO ADD:
Not to split hairs here, but technically the mod is "series switching" not parallel switching as you stated above.
The standard tele switching configuration puts the neck & bridge pickups in parallel when used together already. The switch (via push/pull, 4-way etc) puts them in series.


You may split hairs, otherwise, I'll never learn.


Thanks for sharing that video and clarifying that I need to see that part of the push/pull pot as a separate entity, makes sense!
Do you think upgrading the kits 3-way switch to an Oak Grigsby or standard Fender US one is going to make a difference?
I have connected wires to it now a couple of times now and it is starting to look a bit hammered, that's why.

[McCreed]

Do you think upgrading the kits 3-way switch to an Oak Grigsby or standard Fender US one is going to make a difference?
I have connected wires to it now a couple of times now and it is starting to look a bit hammered, that's why.

I presume you have the stock "import" type switch in there currently. Personally, if it's quiet, and working properly, I wouldn't. But that's just me. However if the solder lugs were looking gnarly with great gobs of solder, I would [have] thoroughly cleaned them off before soldering on my new pickup leads. With soldering, I'm of the opinion that a tidy looking solder join is also a better connection. Even if someone isn't an experienced solderer (?) I encourage them to try and be as neat as they can. FTR, I'm not an expert, but I can do a fairly tidy job of it.
Sorry, got sidetracked there...

Back to the switch upgrade...
There will be no sonic enhancement (ie: better tone). Different types of switches will have different "feels" because of the individual mechanisms used in their function. You may like the feel of one over the other.
More expensive units like CRL can certainly be of higher quality and may be more durable or reliable but ultimately they're all susceptible to wear and tear, corrosion etc. To me it's a situation of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" (unless it makes you feel better :o).

Another consideration is the depth of the control cavity. I can't recall what the cavity depth is on the PBG TL's, but CRL and O-G switches are taller than the import ones therefore may require routing the cavity deeper to accommodate them. If the cavity is shielded, there can be short to ground issues without proper clearance.

[Simon Barden]

Fender US use Oak Grigsby or CRL switches. It’s more about how long they work for before going scratchy and intermittent than anything else. I’ve used both Oak Grigsby and CRL switches and I prefer the feel of CRL, so use those if available. But both are a bit deeper than the kit switches. The kit bodies can be a bit thinner than Fender ones, and the control cavities are often shallower and less wide, so you may need to do some work to make either of those switches fit, especially if you have screening foil or paint in the cavity as you don’t want the switch tabs grounding out.

If the switch is getting messy, then it sounds like you need a solder sucker to clean things up. You should be able to get the switch looking almost like new.

The kit pots and switches should work and sound just fine, but just not for as long as better quality components.

I never use the kit electronics and always use Switchcraft or CRL switches and CTS or Alpha pots for my builds and guitar upgrade work, but that’s by choice. The kit 3-way box switches are of a type that tends to fail very suddenly without warning, and can often leave you with no sound at all, whereas other types of switch might get noisy first before they start to fail to make contact. You don’t want sudden silence mid-gig!

[RocknRolf]

Judging by your answers I shouldn't worry. I was asking because in two places the print board of the switch got a caramel-like residue. It all works fine, I was just under the impression I might've burned something. Also, I don't gig, so if it doesn't make for a great improvement, I'll follow McCreeds advice of -if it ain't broke, don't fix it-.

I am not the best solderer but did manage to clean everything clean of solder before re-wiring (I hate messy jobs, so for next time one of those solder suckers might come in handy :D ).

[McCreed]

so for next time one of those solder suckers might come in handy ).

$16.95 at Jaycar. METAL DESOLDER TOOL (https://www.jaycar.com.au/metal-desolder-tool/p/TH1862)

Worth every penny. I've had mine nearly 20 years.

[RocknRolf]

$16.95 at Jaycar. METAL DESOLDER TOOL (https://www.jaycar.com.au/metal-desolder-tool/p/TH1862)

Worth every penny. I've had mine nearly 20 years.Thanks for the link. As I can easily see myself wandering into some pedal builds in the future, it is a no brainer to have.

[McCreed]

Thanks for the link. As I can easily see myself wandering into some pedal builds in the future, it is a no brainer to have.

I find these much easier and effective than desoldering braid. I've struggled with that stuff every time I've tried it. Maybe I'm just using it wrong :confused:

[Simon Barden]

Desoldering braid certainly has its uses. It’s especially good at removing solder from holes. You put it on the soldered area and put your iron on top. I think you need a very hot or powerful iron though. I’ve seen it work very well on some YouTube videos, but have failed with it myself, probably due to not having a powerful iron with a big enough tip.

[McCreed]

I think you need a very hot or powerful iron though. I’ve seen it work very well on some YouTube videos, but have failed with it myself, probably due to not having a powerful iron with a big enough tip.

Yeah, dunno. My soldering station is 48w and max temp is 450°C, I would think that's enough grunt. Though I don't know I've ever tried the braid with the 4mm chisel tip. I'm embarrassed to say I only started using chisel tips a few years ago. They make a huge difference.

[Simon Barden]

The chap I saw I think was using an 80W (maybe 60W) iron. One he normally saves for soldering/de-soldering large items. A large tip with a lot of heat capacity is certainly necessary. He's using it here.


http://youtu.be/xAEU6tUlgX0?t=622

[JohnH]

Desoldering braid certainly has its uses. It’s especially good at removing solder from holes.

I can second this - it's great for cleaning out tube sockets or holes in input jacks, but I find it quite fiddly for anything else.