Multiscale kits

[Chaosblade]

Can't say I expected those to pop up, I ordered a flame maple one on impulse even though I didn't want another kit until one or both of my EX's get finished.

I was thinking that it might be worth mentioning the parallel fret in the specs. I honestly can't tell which it is from the picture, it's kind of trippy. At first I thought it was the 9th fret, then the 12th, now back to 9th. The flame veneer kit also says "GMS-7Z" in the subtitle instead of GMS-7F.

Other than that, multiscale kits. Cool!

[Sonic Mountain]

Huh, that is interesting. Keen to try out playing one at some point. I know that I struggle with 7 strings so these kits probably aren't for me.

[Rabbitz]

Huh, that is interesting. Keen to try out playing one at some point. I know that I struggle with 7 strings so these kits probably aren't for me.

I can't get my head (or fingers) around six strings so 6+ strings or weird frets are definitely not for this little black duck.

[dozymuppet]

I'm keen as to try one of these kits out. Whether it's at the top of my list is debatable, but it's a very tempting Xmas wishlist item.

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[Simon Barden]

The slanted pickups don't give many options for upgrades, short of a few custom made pickups that really aren't at all cheap. Those offset mounting tabs also make it impossible to mount conventional 7-string pickups in at an angle. I'd personally suggest a rethink on those unless someone can come up with a reasonably-priced set of replacements.

[Sidewinder]

After building a 7-string already I can say I am interested in a multi-scale but I am actually thinking about a scratch build 8-string. As they say go big or go home.

This will probably be next spring in the US as I have 2 kit builds in process and 2 more planned.

[Chaosblade]

The pickup thing is something I thought about. Will probably require something custom or modded to replace the stock ones.

[Sidewinder]

There are some forums out there specifically dedicated to 7, 8, and 9 string players and they would know what is available. While I did not look into the pickups, when I looked into multi scale guitars I saw a wide variety of pickups from less well known manufacturers.

[Simon Barden]

I've seen one Italian make of angled pickups, and they were about €310 for a set (roughly £280/AUD$510/US$360), but you'd need to know what angle the kit pickups were, as there seems to be several, which will limit choice still further. DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan make a lot of 7- and 8-string pickups, but they are all standard pattern units. OK, they aren't the cheapest pickups available, but they'd certainly be about 2/3 of that. Very few budget brands do straight 7-string pickups, let alone angled ones. Artec, kent Armstrong and Warman do a few standard 7s, but not GFS, Tonerider or IronGear.

If the guitar kit is otherwise good, then it seems a shame not to be able to fit decent but affordable pickups into it, as I doubt the kit pickups are anything but passable.

[Sidewinder]

When you head into that world it's just different. Nothing is cheap and it's harder to find.

The kit looked cool though.

[MusicStudent1]

FWIW - Neo Classical Shredder / Instructor, Rusty Cooley now plays a multi scale guitar. He is the most accomplished guitarist I’ve ever seen. (I had a lesson with him once) The guy has devoted his life to playing guitar and I’ve never seen anybody play that well before in my entire life!

https://www.ormsbyguitars.com/rusty-cooley.html

I just thought I’d throw that info out since we’re on the subject of extreme guitars and extreme players.

[vh2580]

You could upgrade the supplied pickups by using the baseplates and fitting standard humbucker coils. plenty of forums and youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj8CFIjH_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa2bbXRMwzM

[Squigs315]

The slanted pickups don't give many options for upgrades, short of a few custom made pickups that really aren't at all cheap. Those offset mounting tabs also make it impossible to mount conventional 7-string pickups in at an angle. I'd personally suggest a rethink on those unless someone can come up with a reasonably-priced set of replacements.



I'm wondering if a bladed pickup or hot-rail would work. They don't have the pole spacing issue, generally a bit cheaper. Then there may be the concern of aesthetics and sound, but for someone who doesn't mind it could be an affordable option.

Regardless, you do make a good point.

[Chaosblade]

I'm wondering if a bladed pickup or hot-rail would work. They don't have the pole spacing issue, generally a bit cheaper. Then there may be the concern of aesthetics and sound, but for someone who doesn't mind it could be an affordable option.

Regardless, you do make a good point.

Probably, with the caveat that it would require modifying the pickup cavities to take 8 string pickups. A standard 7 string pickup would be too short once angled, and you would need to do something about the angle of the mounting brackets. I think an 8 string rail/blade would be long enough, but it might even require a 9 string. And an 8 string rail pickup upgrade is already a niche within a niche.

Without a standard for multiscale pickup angles there likely wasn't a clean solution for drop-in replacements regardless of how PBG or the factory approached the kit design.

[Simon Barden]

You could upgrade the supplied pickups by using the baseplates and fitting standard humbucker coils. plenty of forums and youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj8CFIjH_n0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa2bbXRMwzM

Possible, but not really stuff for new kit builders. You might have to also drill or enlarge screw holes in the baseplate for adjustment screws. You may run into pole spacing issues depending on the 'good' pickup spacing and the baseplate angle. And depending on the angle, the 'good' pickup's magnet may be too short to get full coverage to the two worst-case end pole pieces.

All mights and mays, but they still need to be considered. And as these guitars are almost certainly going to be used in high gain situation, I'd certainly want to wax-fix the baseplate and spacers to the bobbins to reduce any risk of vibrations and microphonics. There's a fair bit of work involved that's not to be undertaken lightly.

[Simon Barden]

I suppose you could ask the question "do the pickups really need to be slanted at all'? I can see some reasons for doing it, but have people done tests to see if it makes a noticeable difference in the real world? Straight pickups might give a bit more bass end or high-end, or a touch of both, but that all depends where you'd position a straight pickup relative to the slanted one.

[Barry snook]

I just got one of these kits on an impulse and only thought of the pickups after the fact.

Yes they are impossible to find stock so if you want to change them, you will most definitely have to get them custom made or make them yourself as angled guitars all have different angles.

[Sidewinder]

Pretty much all of the Djent guys I see using insane multi-scale guitars have slanted pickups. I have seen no test data to show any difference but I cannot believe the pickup manufacturers would be doing it if it was not necessary in some applications. Pole spacing is probably big factor since some of those guitars have really wide saddle spacing.

[Chaosblade]

Here's a straight on shot of the fretboard for anyone else who can't quite wrap their head around the angled pictures on the store page. I'm pleased the scales match up closer to the 9th fret rather than the 12th.

https://i.imgur.com/UTduTA5.jpg



Oh, and now I'm also thinking a replacement nut might need to be custom too. Probably need a blank and DIY it. Might be cheaper to just go to a luthier and have that done since proper nut files cost half as much as the entire kit.

[Mr.Drifter]

I'm wondering if a bladed pickup or hot-rail would work. They don't have the pole spacing issue, generally a bit cheaper. Then there may be the concern of aesthetics and sound, but for someone who doesn't mind it could be an affordable option.

Regardless, you do make a good point.

This is how it's done most of the time. People generally use say emgs in them (especially brands using emgs). And emg's are hotrails basically.
Just need to route out the slot to suit a pickup for a pickup one string above. So, a 7 string multiscale would benefit from an 8 string emg say.

Otherwise, it's possible to use the baseplate and use other pickups.
But, depending on the angle and scale, it's possible there is pickups out there. From memory there is a few companies that do make pickups in one select angle setup.

Personally the one thing that made me a bit hesitant was the lack of info regarding the scales. I mean, I want to get one regardless, but want to know what scales it is. 25.5-27 is the usual, but always worth knowing. Plus where the neutral/ parallel is, cause anything at 12 or above is honestly jarring. 9th string is the ideal.

For reference, I have 2 multiscales myself. Ormsby sx carve 6 string, and a hype gtr 7 string. They use the same scale angle for all their guitars, just more strings and wider for the extra strings. So, 7 is 25.5-27 iirc, and the 6 is the same, just minus the 7th strings scale. So like 26.6 or something from memory.
Honestly, their fretboards are really comfortable. Ibanez's one, which is similar, was really uncomfortable to me. So, interested to try this and see how it feels. If it works well, could be a really good option.
I've already seen it discussed on some of the facebook 7 string groups, which is good to see. Few of them complaining about the price, but considering it's multiscale, that's a lot of the price. Bridge looks very similar to a hipshot bridge (if not being one), which is a good thing. Pickups I'm unsure about. I imagine they'd be better than the average kit pickup as well, due to baseplate angles. But, might also be average kit pickups. That said, it does say korean made for both, so that is definitely good.

But either way, definitely interested

Edit again; it now mentions scale length (unless it always did, and I missed it earlier), and it's 25.5-27, with neutral looking around the 9th. Bless

[Sidewinder]

Having never played a multi-scale I have to ask what is jarring about where the parallel fret is? Is it an issue with the fret angle in the upper or lower registers?

[Chaosblade]

Having never played a multi-scale I have to ask what is jarring about where the parallel fret is? Is it an issue with the fret angle in the upper or lower registers?

It determines the angle of the frets down the fretboard. It can be anywhere, but the closer to either end it is, the more extreme the fanning will be on the opposite end. Around the 9th fret will give a fairly even fan across both ends of the fretboard. I think most manufacturers go with something like that, but I know Ibanez uses the 12th fret which results in the fan skewing toward lower frets.

[lickmydoo]

I was wondering about the neck rest design.
Do you guys think it can be carved in a more aesthetic and ergonomic shape?

[Simon Barden]

If you are talking about the neck heel and join area, then you can normally do something. There seems to be quite a large glue area for the neck, so you could certainly thin the heel down a bit. At least twice as large as on an SG or an ES-1kit and their necks are fine. Just remember that the neck is a bit longer than normal, so you don’t want to reduce it too much for too long around the neck join, or it could become rather flexible. There is already a bit of a cutaway on the treble side of the heel, but I should think you could improve on that a bit and modify the neck itself to match it. Sometimes you don’t need much removed to make upper fret access a lot easier.

Probably best done once the neck is glued on, so you can immediately see how it feels in your hand every time you remove some wood.

[lickmydoo]

Yes that's absolutely what I was talking about.
I didn't thought about flexibility.

[Barry snook]

Just got mine in and trying to upgrade the pickups for it, the stock pickups have a 16 degree angle on them, but the mounting feet are not centered on the pickups and the routing, also the cavity is rounded. its pretty much impossible to just buy pickups to fit as a replacement.

so after speaking to bareknuckle you have to select their custom baseplate at 16 degrees, and ask for the corners rounded off. Then you will have to make the mounting cavities centred. a bit of work involved.

I guess you could use the baseplate provided in the stock pickups and take apart and remount regular pickups, but thats a bit more involved than i'm prepared to do, i guess i would rather just route out the guitar a bit instead.

All in all this guitar is really well made, very impressed with the quality overall