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Joe Garfield
29-04-2020, 09:42 AM
Hey guys and gals,

I want tube sound and dynamics but unfortunately will play mostly through headphones. It seems like most tube amps that have headphone outputs are actually using a solid state circuit, possibly with digital emulation. Does it make any sense to get a tube amp in that case? Are there any good options other than using software amp emulation?

Thanks,
JG

Bakersdozen
29-04-2020, 09:51 AM
I'm getting some great sounds and feel out my Line6 HX Stomp. I use mainly with headphones and it also acts as a fully fledged audio interface with my Mac. Can also be used direct into PA or FrFr speaker for an amp in the room feel. Has stacks more features which you can look into if something you think worth exploring.

jugglindan
29-04-2020, 10:29 AM
It's definitely not a tube amp, but I have been using a THR10C for 7 years. It's fantastic for low volume or headphones (I use mine with Audio Technica M50x's). The new THR-II has even more amp models (and 20W stereo output if needed).

As far as I can tell, the amp models are quite good. For example the one modeled after a Fender Deluxe Reverb has all the flubby bass of the original :)

Responds well to picking dynamics and guitar volume adjustments.

The USB provides an audio interface to computer.

No effects loop, but it takes pedals well.

McCreed
29-04-2020, 11:58 AM
Fortunately we are currently living in a golden age of musical instrument technology, so your options are practically limitless.

The bad news is, your options are practically limitless. :confused: :o

Your choices for tube amps with HP out are going to be limited, but solid state amp technology has come so far (even in the last 5 years) there is something for every budget and every player's needs. AND a lot of them sound great!

If you're solely a bedroom/lounge room player, the previous suggestions are great options and there are heaps more that can do double duty for headphone or live playing. The Fender Champion 20 or 40 are great, have a headphone out, aux in and won't break the bank.
What I like most about them is they are just plug & play. There's no faffing around with deep-diving computer interfacing. Just knobs on the front of the amp. (This is what I disliked about the Mustang Series. Too much mucking around with patches and parameters blah blah blah)

It would help to know what your budget is, because there are good inexpensive options or great expensive ones.

I own one of the Fender Deluxe Reverb ToneMasters, and it is effing brilliant!
Yes, it cost nearly as much (or more) as some tube amps, but it is worth it to me. It weighs under 11kg and keeps up with a bass player and hard hitting drummer no problem and sounds as close to my original '64 Deluxe Reverb as any other I've heard.
It doesn't have a "headphone out" but I can connect it via XLR into my mixer or DAW for "silent" playing/recording.

king casey
29-04-2020, 01:31 PM
I'm getting some great sounds and feel out my Line6 HX Stomp.

Casually looking up the cost of one had me falling off my chair.
Geez I could get 2 amps for the price.

cheers, Mark.

McCreed
29-04-2020, 01:58 PM
Casually looking up the cost of one had me falling off my chair.
Geez I could get 2 amps for the price.

Still less than the Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb...

Andy123
29-04-2020, 02:45 PM
A valve pre-amp pedal would do the job nicely. You could plug your headphones direct into the output, or hook it up to an amp in the effects loop, or push the front of the amp into over drive.
Kingsley make some awesome ones. Check out the Squire:
http://kingsleyamplifiers.com/products/pedals/17/

jugglindan
29-04-2020, 03:14 PM
That reminds me that I really want to build a Valvecaster (https://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2014/01/matsumin-valve-caster.html). DIY 12AU7 overdrive, tasty!

Simon Barden
29-04-2020, 06:08 PM
A valve pre-amp pedal would do the job nicely. You could plug your headphones direct into the output, or hook it up to an amp in the effects loop, or push the front of the amp into over drive.
Kingsley make some awesome ones. Check out the Squire:
http://kingsleyamplifiers.com/products/pedals/17/

But you'd also need to use it with a cabinet simulator (as they state) with headphones, otherwise you'll get all that HF fizz that sounds awful once you start adding any drive to the sound.

Valve amp headphone outputs use a very simple low pass filter affair, a couple of capacitors and resistors and that's it, to remove most of the frequencies above 6kHz (well I definitely know that's all that Blackstar use). Yes, they'll also use an op-amp to drive the headphone output, but it's just cleanly representing the signal coming from your pre-amp, and not taking anything away. But most valve amps don't have headphone outputs.

If you are going to spend almost all your time on headphones, then either get a solid state modelling amp (they really are very good now), or maybe a valve/tube amp for playing without headphones and some form of stomp or desktop modeller for when you are. But get one of the latest models, as they have all improved considerably since they first came out. For instance, don't get a 10 year-old Line 6 combo. But the Mk 1 and Mk 2 (current) Boss Katana models are certainly worth considering and sound excellent on their own and through headphones.

The Blackstar HT5R is one of the few valve mps that do have a headphone output, and although the speaker emulation is basic, it is useable, and the amp does sound good on its own. But it's only 5W, and although that's more than enough for home use, it's not really enough to gig with unless miked up, and it's never going to sound as nice clean as say a Fender Princeton, Blues Jr or Deluxe.

jugglindan
29-04-2020, 06:26 PM
For instance, don't get a 10 year-old Line 6 combo. But the Mk 1 and Mk 2 (current) Boss Katana models are certainly worth considering and sound excellent on their own and through headphones.

I have been tempted by the Katana amps for over a year, but my first-gen THR10C works well enough, and I have patches tuned exactly right for me. Plus I know that if I ever did get something like the Katana I would spend all my time experimenting with different pedal chain simulations and no time playing. They are nice amps though.

Simon Barden
29-04-2020, 06:44 PM
Those Yamahas are also fine amps, just not as loud if you did want to gig.

McCreed
29-04-2020, 06:45 PM
Plus I know that if I ever did get something like the Katana I would spend all my time experimenting with different pedal chain simulations and no time playing.

Pre-zactly!!!

That's what I love about my Tonemaster DR. It's just an amp. You turn it on, you plug in, and play!
I don't see that one going anywhere anytime soon.

I also have a Roland Blues Cube Artist. The BC's are also very good "high end" solid state amps.
Based on a "certain brand" of 6L6 amps, no whistles and chimes, just an amp. (it does have an FX loop which I like though)

jugglindan
29-04-2020, 06:51 PM
Pre-zactly!!!

That's what I love about my Tonemaster DR. It's just an amp. You turn it on, you plug in, and play!
I don't see that one going anywhere anytime soon.

I also have a Roland Blues Cube Artist. The BC's are also very good "high end" solid state amps.
Based on a "certain brand" of 6L6 amps, no whistles and chimes, just an amp. (it does have an FX loop which I like though)

That said, I do find an evening spent tweaking settings to see how they sound very relaxing. I mean, earlier this week I spent an evening swapping clipping diodes in my TS clone :)

Joe Garfield
30-04-2020, 03:19 AM
Would the Kingsley pedal work as a line out to a headphone amplifier?

Simon Barden
30-04-2020, 04:58 AM
It probably would (though I can't find anything specific about the typical output voltage level). But you'd still need a speaker emulator between it and the headphone amp unless you only played clean. And of course there's no reverb available either, so you'd need to run a reverb pedal into the preamp.

McCreed
30-04-2020, 06:10 AM
Would the Kingsley pedal work as a line out to a headphone amplifier?

I don't have anything to add to what Simon said, but at $280US + shipping for a Kingsley, you can a get really good contemporary solid state amp for that kind money. It will be way more versatile for what you're looking to do for home playing, and one day you may want to jam with some mates and you'll be good to go.

D'oh!!! Just realised you are in the US!
But I still think an amp is the way to go.

Joe Garfield
30-04-2020, 09:11 AM
I'll definitely check out the modeling amps. It's certainly been a long time since I've used or heard one in person.

That said, if there was a way to get authentic tube response and sound in the signal chain, it would be nice. Kingsley says the preamp pedals need a power amp behind them, not necessarily a speaker load, so not sure if a full cabinet (load) emulator is necessary? I have a pair of powered studio monitors I could use for live if they output anything like a line level signal.

But agreed that the Roland Cube amps look pretty decent on paper and YouTube videos.

McCreed
30-04-2020, 01:44 PM
But agreed that the Roland Cube amps look pretty decent on paper and YouTube videos.

Still don't know what your budget is, but the standard Cube range offer real bang for the buck and reasonable prices. The available features increase with size (and price) but there's something for everybody there.

The Blues Cube models are where they start to get into near tube amp prices.

I use to have one of the older Cube 30's (mid-2000's) and later a Cube 40-GX (2013). Both were very good, and they've only got better with recent improvements in SS technology.

Andy123
30-04-2020, 03:38 PM
Would the Kingsley pedal work as a line out to a headphone amplifier?
Before I knew what was what, my only pedal was a metal zone. I often plugged headphones into the output for silent practice.

jugglindan
30-04-2020, 04:32 PM
Before I knew what was what, my only pedal was a metal zone. I often plugged headphones into the output for silent practice.

For some reason, this is hilarious :D

Possibly because I used to do the same thing, but with a cheap Zoom multifx.

Joe Garfield
30-04-2020, 04:48 PM
I don’t have a budget yet, just trying to figure out what’s the ideal setup, then I can decide whether I want to pay for it or where to make sacrifices. I have an incredibly picky ear that likes to nag. It’s kind of like a wife - it never seems happy until I close my eyes and hand over the credit card. I see Fender, Vox, and Marshall all have tube hybrid amps with modeling and headphone/line/digital outputs for $200-$400 usd. It would be nice if they actually sound good but I’m not holding my breath.

The goal is a small and simple rig. I like the feel and sound of a tube, like using my volume knob to control gain, and typically play through an overdrive, compressor, and some kind of reverb (pedal or amp). Then some kind of loop station with rhythm tracks. I agree it would be nice to have an amp to use for jamming with friends, but I do have a couple of powered studio monitors, and can build a speaker cabinet if I find a tube/hybrid head that meets my needs.

Houses in Hawaii have no insulation, our windows are always open, and sound travels here like you wouldn’t believe. Plus I have housemates. So headphones are my only real option at home.

jugglindan
30-04-2020, 05:05 PM
The Marshall DSL5C (https://marshall.com/marshall-amps/products/amps/dsl/dsl5c) has some good reviews. I have seen them second-hand for under 300 USD. The H&K Tubemeister 5 also looks good, as does the Fender Super Champ X2.

All much more expensive in Australia :(

Joe Garfield
01-05-2020, 07:45 AM
Wow, check out this thing! A mini modeling pre-amp that I can feed right to my headphone amp. It sounds pretty good, has a cabinet emulator, and seems to clean up well with volume:

https://youtu.be/0-jTLyuqVvQ

I’m also looking at Two Notes ‘Le Clean’ tube preamp, which is a lot like the Kingsley Jester (or Squire + Page) but has cabinet simulation and is meant to go straight to line out. But many run with an additional cabinet emulator for direct out (just for tone, not for load.)
Edit: the Le Clean does have one speaker simulation

https://youtu.be/yfNAvBvfi0U

jugglindan
01-05-2020, 08:06 AM
Wow, check out this thing! A mini modeling pre-amp that I can feed right to my headphone amp. It sounds pretty good, has a cabinet emulator, and seems to clean up well with volume:

https://youtu.be/0-jTLyuqVvQ

I’m also looking at Two Notes ‘Le Clean’ tube preamp, which is a lot like the Kingsley Jester (or Squire + Page) but has cabinet simulation and is meant to go straight to line out. But many run with an additional cabinet emulator for direct out (just for tone, not for load.)

https://youtu.be/yfNAvBvfi0U

The Mooer pedal looks interesting. They also have a bunch of others (http://www.mooeraudio.com/product/PREAMP-18)for different amp flavours. Lots of youtube comparisons.

Joe Garfield
01-05-2020, 08:20 AM
Yeah I’ve seen a couple, they are certainly interesting. Hopefully I can see one in person, although they are cheap enough :). The big thing for me is clean tone - you can always add dirt, but you can’t add clean.

jugglindan
01-05-2020, 08:44 AM
Agreed. My preferred setup for a while has been pedals into a fairly clean amp (Blues Jr sim on my THR10C, gain dialed in to just below the point of breakup). Let's me kick in dirt when required but easily get back to my main sound.

McCreed
01-05-2020, 01:02 PM
I have owned and still own a number of Mooer pedals (unfortunately none of the micro preamp ones) but my point is that they make good sounding pedals. Based on my experience with their compressor (Yellow Comp) and number of their OD's, I'd be confident in saying you wouldn't be disappointed.

Now that I have a better idea of where you are wanting to go, I can also tell you from personal experience that the Joyo amp sim pedals are really good and dirt cheap (probably about 40 bucks US).

I've had their Fender-flavoured one (American Sound) since about 2012. It's been my primary "ampless" rig for home playing and I have used it just about daily since that time and never had an issue.

Joyo makes one of each of four big amp flavours: Fender, Marshall, Vox, Mesa Boogie (American Sound, British Sound, AC Tone, California Sound respectively).

These are clones of the Tech 21 NYC Character Series Sans Amps (now discontinued). I used to own the T-21 Blonde (Fender) and can say the Joyo clone is good enough that I sold the Blonde.

However, now that I've sung the praises of the Joyo pedals, and given you're located in the US, have a look at the Tech 21 Fly Rigs. They have onboard effects and can go straight into a power amp, mixer, DAW or powered speaker.

Joe Garfield
01-05-2020, 05:59 PM
Yeah I guess it’s a good plan B until I figure out the right thing, or come to believe the right thing isn’t realistic. I’m not yet convinced a tube preamp (tube DI box) and maybe a tube gain pedal isn’t going to work, but it could be too much of a rabbit hole to get there.

Oby
01-05-2020, 07:56 PM
I was recently chasing a similar thing. I wanted the classic valve amp sound but mostly wanted to use headphones.
It's not 100% valve it's hybrid but I ended up getting an Orange Micro Terror.
So am I happy? Well I also have a very nice Fender Mustang GT modelling amp, a classic Roland JC-160 (the 4x10 version of the JC-120) and a couple of Orange combo amps including a Crush Bass 50 and a funky little Pignose amp. I haven't used any of them since I got the Micro Terror. Highly recommend it. It's incredibly powerful and versatile.
I disconnected the speakers in the JC-160 and attached a 1/4" socket. Plugged the Micro Terror in and couldn't get it past 3 on the volume dial without shaking the whole house.
FYI all the other options I looked at for a pure valve amp were just too expensive and my old ears couldn't really the difference anyway.

Oby
01-05-2020, 08:02 PM
Another idea totally away from valves just to confuse you. A friend of mine has a drop-in tone control pot from Guitar Fetish which is a pre-amp and effect unit all contained on a tiny circuit board on the back of the pot. It was very nice playing through headphones plugged directly into the guitar. You can get them with different effect built-in too.

jugglindan
01-05-2020, 08:35 PM
Another idea totally away from valves just to confuse you. A friend of mine has a drop-in tone control pot from Guitar Fetish which is a pre-amp and effect unit all contained on a tiny circuit board on the back of the pot. It was very nice playing through headphones plugged directly into the guitar. You can get them with different effect built-in too.

Can you switch it off easily to play normally through an amp? It reminds me of the AmPlug, which is a convenient option for headphone practice. I have never tried one so can't comment on the sound.

Bakersdozen
01-05-2020, 09:09 PM
Can you switch it off easily to play normally through an amp? It reminds me of the AmPlug, which is a convenient option for headphone practice. I have never tried one so can't comment on the sound.The Amplugs are pretty cool. Great for just being able to riff with headphones anywhere. And easy to just chuck in the case.

king casey
02-05-2020, 05:57 AM
I have a Vox amplug that I fooled around with for a while.
Battery life is annoyingly brief and the main reason it's swimming around in the drawer.

cheers, Mark.

Joe Garfield
02-05-2020, 10:23 AM
This might be it:
https://youtu.be/_6kWsb3wOnk

Oby
02-05-2020, 04:39 PM
Wow that Blackbird is sweet. Very tempting.
There's also some pretty good valve preamps from Douk. The Nobsound NS-01E might be a pure valve not hybrid but I'm not sure. Their Black Bear models have an op amp chip for the headphones but the Nobsound doesn't mention anything about an op amp chip.

Joe Garfield
02-05-2020, 05:12 PM
I came across that Orange amp - good suggestion!

I also found this: AMT SS-11. This particular video made me fall in love with it and almost buy it. But it's hard to find many other videos that sound that good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihrdaQbTT8U

The tone, but particularly the attack response is just phenomenal.

Joe Garfield
02-05-2020, 05:59 PM
Well, I bought the Blackbird. It seems like a nice high end unit and there's instructions to change tubes and tweak the bias to shape the tone. My whole life I've wanted to play through tubes and I'm tired of always wishing I got the better thing.

https://www.effectrode.com/products/effects-pedals/blackbird-vacuum-tube-preamp/

Now if only my guitar kit would show up!! =)

McCreed
02-05-2020, 07:02 PM
Glad your search is over and hopefully you found "the one"!

I like the irony of you finding what you wanted from an Aussie guitarist's demo! He's a damn fine player (I mean foin) and does excellent videos though.

Joe Garfield
02-05-2020, 07:31 PM
Well, what can I say - I've always liked the Aussies :) I used to hang with the Aussie internationals when I taught skiing in Vermont. Every year it was a different group but they always immediately felt like friends.

Here's another great video. His 'grain channel' is nice and clean with 50% guitar volume, starts to drive with more volume, then his moderate overdrive channel rips. Really nice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ZDQiyLKu4&t=13s

Oby
02-05-2020, 09:38 PM
Good choice. I've made the same mistake many times trying to save a few bucks and later wishing I bought the more expensive unit.
I was just about to buy some cheap speaker units to build a cabinet but now I think I'll wait and save up for some Celestions or WGS.

Joe Garfield
03-05-2020, 06:33 AM
I wonder if this is what they call a ‘mid life crisis,’ lol! I think the next thing on the list is the Two Notes C.A.B. M. That combo would be quite a bit more than I thought I would spend, but the CAB M not only has the cabinet simulation, it also has independent reverb, equalization (equalisation down under??), dedicated headphone out, etc.

The whole rig would be tiny and light, and play nicely with my headphones, headphone amp, and powered studio monitors.

jugglindan
03-05-2020, 06:36 AM
I wonder if this is what they call a ‘mid life crisis,’ lol! I think the next thing on the list is the Two Notes C.A.B. M. That combo would be quite a bit more than I thought I would spend, but the CAB M not only has the cabinet simulation, it also has independent reverb, equalization (equalisation down under??), dedicated headphone out, etc.

The whole rig would be tiny and light, and play nicely with my headphones, headphone amp, and powered studio monitors.I thought it was called GAS [emoji4]

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

Joe Garfield
03-05-2020, 06:46 AM
Whew, thanks Doc! I’m glad it’s nothing serious!

jugglindan
03-05-2020, 06:51 AM
Whew, thanks Doc! I’m glad it’s nothing serious!Oh, it can get pretty serious. And there is no known cure.

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

Joe Garfield
03-05-2020, 07:52 AM
34861

(I know, I’m not that kind of artist!)

jugglindan
03-05-2020, 08:38 AM
34861

(I know, I’m not that kind of artist!)

That would be cheaper than severe GAS. Original Klon and a Dumble amp anyone?

king casey
03-05-2020, 09:33 AM
Reading through this thread was bringing on a case of GAS.

I spend most of my guitar playing through headphones as I have partner that's allergic to the sound of
somebody trying to improve their lot.
After marching through several youtube reviews I was concerned that the sound I want required the spending of hard-earned cash.

Today I decided to dial in the best sound possible on my el-cheapo NU-X PG-2.
I then set my Vox Pathfinder 10 dials to half way ...except the volume (I'm not suicidal).
Voila!! my GAS is cured!
34865

cheers, Mark

Joe Garfield
03-05-2020, 03:34 PM
While we’re confessing... :)

I basically haven’t touched a guitar in years, don’t even own any, but I have 3 kits + accessories on the way, am building workshop and jigs, buying tools, and now buying pedals, lol. But that said, I’m a craftsman at heart, traded my old guitars for a piano, and have been studying theory. So it’s not random, just sudden.

My first guitar was a compromise, and pretty much every purchase for the next 15 years was a compromise. I eventually got tired of the compromises so I took a break. I wasn’t going to get back in until I could justify a PRS Hollowbody (hence the theory), but being a craftsman, once I found the similar PitBull kit I’m all in.

Hi, I’m Joe, and I’m a gear-o-holiic.

jugglindan
03-05-2020, 03:38 PM
While we’re confessing... :)

I basically haven’t touched a guitar in years, don’t even own any, but I have 3 kits + accessories on the way, am building workshop and jigs, buying tools, and now buying pedals, lol. But that said, I’m a craftsman at heart, traded my old guitars for a piano, and have been studying theory. So it’s not random, just sudden.

Hi, I’m Joe, and I’m a gear-o-holiic.

Nothing wrong with that. I once realised that I don't have new hobbies, just old ones that have rotated back into active duty.

Joe Garfield
03-05-2020, 03:43 PM
Thanks, It helps!

These past couple years I’ve started to realize the same thing. I’ll never give up my tools, some form of music equipment, my golf clubs, and my dive gear. Tools since I could hold a flashlight, and music and golf since high school. Diving since I moved to where it’s warm :)

jugglindan
03-05-2020, 03:47 PM
I built electronic kits in my early teens, played guitar in my later teens, then got distracted and did drawing for a while, got distracted and learnt juggling (I can still do a solid 4 balls and shaky 5), got distracted by guitar again (getting my first electric), recently started building pedals again...

It just goes around and around.

Andy40
04-05-2020, 04:19 AM
Dick Smith electronic kits by chance?

jugglindan
04-05-2020, 05:34 AM
Dick Smith electronic kits by chance?You bet!

They were awesome

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

Andy40
06-05-2020, 03:31 AM
Snap! they were the best.

Joe Garfield
13-05-2020, 06:14 AM
Well I’ve learned at least a little something since I started this thread :) Particularly, ‘cabinet simulation’ and ‘power amp simulation’ are two different things and can be a significant part of the experience. Most of the demos I’ve watched had a tube power amp plugged into either an active tube power amp, or a modeled amp with an emulated cabinet.

Then there are different types of emulators: passive analog, active analog, and digital. On top of that, there are room effects (ie, reverb.)

On one hand, I could consider the Two Notes CAB M which is basically amp modeling software in a pedal box. It converts signal to digital and can apply everything from custom cabinet impulse responses, EQ, mic positions, room dynamics, etc to the signal, then convert back to analog. There will be a small amount of latency and I’d really prefer not to have that much processing in my guitar signal. But it’s a really complete solution, albeit not cheap at $320 usd.

On a second hand, there are active analog cabinet emulators, like Suhr A.C.E. This is another pedal sized device that applies filters and EQ to the sound. It’s obviously much more limited than the above product and still has no room effects. Still close to a $300 usd solution that may not have enough reverb. There are cheaper ones but they’re usually less convincing.

On one foot, I was considering an inexpensive IR loader just to try (NuX Mini Studio.) For $100 it seems like an inexpensive way to try custom IRs (can buy additional IRs from Celestion which have mic positions and therefore maybe some room effect.) There’s no amplifier modeling, the pedal doesn’t come with power cord, and may not cover enough reverb so when you add these products on it’s really a $200+ solution. But since the modeling is limited to IR only, the latency is a little lower at least. Also I don’t want to go down a rabbit hole of buying cheap equipment only to realize I wish I had better equipment. It’s hard to say if that would be the case or not.

Living on the most remote set of populated islands in the world, and in a time of a global pandemic, doesn’t help the process! It’s not like I can walk into a store and try out a few things. The stores aren’t open and most of them don’t have what I’m looking for.

jugglindan
13-05-2020, 06:36 AM
I feel your pain. It can be very hard to cut through all the options when you can't try before you buy. No amount of reading reviews and specs, or YouTube videos takes the place of hearing yourself play through something with your own guitar.

Yes, you are right that a lot of different elements are needed to get the sound right. Even my clean sound has a lot of processing (buffer, light gain, light post-gain compression, reverb, amp, cab sim). That's one thing I like about lunchbox amps like my THR10C. It has all the basic elements built in - 8 amp sims, 5 cabinet speaker sims, reverb, plus the option of delay, phaser, flanger, chorus, compressor, noise gate. And I can mix and match. I tend to use the Blues Jr amp sim with the Bluesbreaker 2x12 cab sim. It makes it richer to my ears than the Fender 1x12 cab options.

Are there any online vendors with a good return policy? That might give you the safety net you need.

Joe Garfield
13-05-2020, 07:03 AM
Hmm... ‘modeling amp’ = digital.

Coming from a guy with exquisite taste in amplifiers and a preference for analog pedal circuitry, I think you just sold me on the Two Notes CAB M. =)

I saw a video of Pete Thorn using IR software. There was a tone where he moved the mic away from the speaker and you (I) could “hear the room” - it honestly felt like I was in a room with an amplifier being played.

Considering what I’m after, maybe it’s silly to try to avoid some kind of digital modeling.

Joe Garfield
13-05-2020, 07:07 AM
I guess another option is a free trial of Wall of Sound - I don’t want to use my PC when playing, but maybe a trial isn’t a bad way to see if I like using modeled tones.

jugglindan
13-05-2020, 07:49 AM
Hmm... ‘modeling amp’ = digital.

Coming from a guy with exquisite taste in amplifiers and a preference for analog pedal circuitry, I think you just sold me on the Two Notes CAB M. =)

I saw a video of Pete Thorn using IR software. There was a tone where he moved the mic away from the speaker and you (I) could “hear the room” - it honestly felt like I was in a room with an amplifier being played.

Considering what I’m after, maybe it’s silly to try to avoid some kind of digital modeling.

I am happy to keep suggesting things that push you in the other direction :)

But really, I think the only way to cut through all the options is to let your ears be the judge. Even Youtube videos are very limiting. It's not your gear, your guitar, your room, and you have no control over all the other things they do to the sound. My favourite example is this review of the Guv'nor pedal. Sure, it's a great pedal but it's demoed through a wall of cranked Marshalls (note the ear protection)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK2RkzF67XU

Also, I agree with the analog over digital. My current pedal building efforts are part of my plan to slowly replace digital effects with analog ones. Later this year I plan to build a tube amp, although I will likely keep the THR as well.

Joe Garfield
13-05-2020, 08:53 AM
Yeah that’s what I realized - I went back and looked at the demos that influenced my decisions, and realized there was more going on than I realized at first.

I think Two Notes CAB M is a pretty safe bet. If i don’t like the amp modeling I can turn it off. If I don’t like the IR I can make my own or buy from Celestion. Or at the very least I can just use EQ, reverb, etc.

It seems like every guitar purchase I made since I started at 16 was some kind of sacrifice. So while expensive, it also feels good to get some premium gear. And I guess it’s gear that should hold it’s value reasonably well if it doesn’t work out. I had credit from a return at Amazon a few months ago so I just applied it to the CAB M :)

Bakersdozen
13-05-2020, 08:57 AM
I think Two Notes CAB M is a pretty safe bet. If i don’t like the amp modeling I can turn it off. If I don’t like the IR I can make my own or buy from Celestion. Or at the very least I can just use EQ, reverb, etc.

Get in contact with me if/when you need IRs

Joe Garfield
13-05-2020, 09:05 AM
Get in contact with me if/when you need IRs

Will do, thank you!

phrozin
20-05-2020, 01:17 AM
But you'd also need to use it with a cabinet simulator (as they state) with headphones, otherwise you'll get all that HF fizz that sounds awful once you start adding any drive to the sound.

Valve amp headphone outputs use a very simple low pass filter affair, a couple of capacitors and resistors and that's it, to remove most of the frequencies above 6kHz (well I definitely know that's all that Blackstar use). Yes, they'll also use an op-amp to drive the headphone output, but it's just cleanly representing the signal coming from your pre-amp, and not taking anything away. But most valve amps don't have headphone outputs.

If you are going to spend almost all your time on headphones, then either get a solid state modelling amp (they really are very good now), or maybe a valve/tube amp for playing without headphones and some form of stomp or desktop modeller for when you are. But get one of the latest models, as they have all improved considerably since they first came out. For instance, don't get a 10 year-old Line 6 combo. But the Mk 1 and Mk 2 (current) Boss Katana models are certainly worth considering and sound excellent on their own and through headphones.

The Blackstar HT5R is one of the few valve mps that do have a headphone output, and although the speaker emulation is basic, it is useable, and the amp does sound good on its own. But it's only 5W, and although that's more than enough for home use, it's not really enough to gig with unless miked up, and it's never going to sound as nice clean as say a Fender Princeton, Blues Jr or Deluxe.

Don't waste your time on a Blackstar ht5r I picked up ht5hr with the 2x112 cabs it was rubbish and way overpriced, I got rid of it and replaced it with a Marshall DSL20H and a Marshall 212 cab with a NUX MS-20 and I love the thing, I play it every day on the 10watt setting perfect for not upsetting folks, the boss katana 50 is a great bit of kit, another different option is a line 6 amplifi TT it's a really good thing for using headset heaps of amp models and cabs and effects can go on an amp to computer to headset also has Bluetooth, the boss GT-001 is also a great bit of kit but $400+ their desktop units but for what you want to do without an amp the line 6 amplifi TT would be perfect for you and under $300

👇👇👇

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMw7vFbCls8&ab_channel=Sweetwater

Gefest
25-05-2020, 02:03 AM
Agreed with phrozin about Blackstar ht5r. This one is really overpriced.
With choosing my headphones I met the next problem, nowadays it is hard to find really good headphones with affordable prices, most of the models are overpriced due to brand, but their quality is too low compared with their price. My friend suggested me to go to the audio-direct.com (https://www.audio-direct.com/) website for recommendations and information about good and NOT overpriced headphones. So with their help, I'm using now Skullcandy S6SCDZ-003 what have amazing quality and very affordable price. I'd recommend following my steps to find good headphones.

Joe Garfield
25-05-2020, 05:42 AM
Blackstar seems to have a good following but not quite the sound I’m after.

DrNomis_44
13-04-2021, 03:12 PM
You bet!

They were awesome

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

Just so happens, I remember building some Dick Smith kits when I was in my early teens, one of the very first Dick Smith kits I built was the Funway Into Electronics FM Mic kit from book 2 of the Funway Into Electronics series, remember those?

DrNomis_44
04-05-2023, 08:02 AM
I've been seriously thinking about doing a diy scratch-build OTL Headphone amp build project for a long time, OTL is short for Output Transformerless, basically an OTL Headphone amplifier is a Tube/Valve Headphone amplifier that does not use an output transformer in it's design to drive a pair of headphones, OTL Headphone amps are more for HiFi music reproduction, I thought that building one from scratch would be a fun project, I might start a thread about my build in the Amplifiers section just in case other members are interested in building one, I will be documenting the build progress as I work on it.

DrNomis_44
04-02-2024, 11:08 AM
I'm currently working on a diy OTL Headphone amp based on this design article I found on the internet, my build will be using three new Svetlana 6N1P twin triode valves I bought online from Evatco, here's a link to the webpage article that gives full construction details:

https://headwizememorial.wordpress.com/2018/03/20/the-6n1p-otl-headphone-amplifier/


It looks relatively easy to build too, even though it is a piece of high-endy HiFi gear, there's no reason why it couldn't be used with a valve guitar amp with an FX loop, just plug the send into the OTL Headphone amp's input, or plug the line-out of a rackmount guitar valve preamp, like a Marshall JMP-1, or an ADA, Rocktron Piranha, Digitech 2112, etc, into the OTL Headphone amp's input.