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View Full Version : The King's Trem-King Tribulations



king casey
04-02-2020, 08:40 AM
After exhaustive searches for alternatives to the Fender tremolo system,
I've pulled the trigger on one of these.
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I am following through on the threat to install a $230 tremolo system into a $30 guitar.

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I don't have a router so the rotary tool (Ozito) will be called into action.

cheers, Mark.

king casey
04-02-2020, 08:55 AM
Instructions start by dowelling up the 2 outside screw holes from a 6 screw Fender tremolo
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I am assuming that this is where the 2 screws that mount the tremolo go.
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Also note that the cavity is widened somewhat to allow for the unit to swing forwards and back.
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cheers, Mark.

king casey
04-02-2020, 11:05 AM
Cavity widened for rearwards movement.
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Widened for forwards movement.
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Only 2 screws in the top for now.
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cheers, Mark.

king casey
05-02-2020, 04:53 AM
I discovered when placing the 2 bridge mounting screws on the 2 end holes from the original bridge,
the scale length is still a few mm too long.
So...dowelled them up and re-positioned closer to the neck.
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It now sits thus...
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Next is to screw the centre block.
As I'm using '10' guage strings I only need one spring for the 'up' bends.
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Now I have to put all the electrics back in and solder a ground wire.

cheers, Mark.

McCreed
05-02-2020, 05:06 AM
I am following through on the threat to install a $230 tremolo system into a $30 guitar.

I love jobs that involve very significant over-capitalisation!!!

It makes me feel better about all the times I've done it :o

Simon Barden
05-02-2020, 06:53 PM
As you already had to enlarge the trem block hole, did you enlarge it even further after moving the unit 2mm further forwards?

king casey
07-02-2020, 04:36 AM
Hi Simon. Not that I remember, however it's a bit redundant now as I'll explain.
My first attempt ended in failure. The usual result when I attempt anything new.
I think the neck was not mounted correctly which in hindsight meant the 2mm movement.
At first, I simply couldn't get this damned thing to stay in tune.
Any bar movement and it would go out. Very frustrating.
Thing is, with all the extensive reading I've done found that those with a negative experience with the Trem-King seemed to have spent little time fiddling with it.

Anyway, As I just happened to have yet another $30 guitar handy (here's one I prepared earlier) Decided to roll back to square one.
Having a second go, Noticed all the little details that were missed in the glow of anticipation the first time around.
The 2 outside holes of the 6 tremolo mount were in fact the ones to use.
This time it was a case of routing out about 5mm of wood from under the rear (leaving the top 3mm of the cavity hole as is.
Then chamfer some of the wood from the front...(just as I pictured in post #3).

I used the same neck from experiment 1.
This time I noticed that the bridges could be set quite low.
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Here's the 2nd iteration.

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From the back...

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I'm using some ugly but functional roller string trees plus a Tusq nut.

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One thing I may require is a set of locking tuners.
I can now tune it up...perform some dive bombs and it returns to pitch.
Pulling the bar up though still leaves it a tad sharp, but I've got some further investigations to go.
So far it's been quite good. I like that the action stays put whilst using the trem.

cheers, Mark.

P.S. The keen eyes will note that I only have 5 strings.
Experiment 1 did involve 2 broken 'E' stings.

king casey
11-02-2020, 05:11 AM
Realised that I've never had much experience using the whammy bar.
Only seemed to be the original 'strat' version and usually ended up blocking it.
Finally got this one set up to the best of my abilities.
Before fitting a new set of strings, I concocted a version of 'nut sauce'...
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After a couple of days trying to get the hang of whammy bar usage, it's all going very well.
I like the way the action stays put when using the bar and seems to hold tune despite 'average' tuners.
I'll give it a thorough work-out and then perhaps get some video demo.
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cheers, Mark.

king casey
15-02-2020, 04:51 AM
Well I'm digging into whammy bar usage like never before.
Tuning is holding up quite well and I'm seriously considering getting a 'Tele' version...

5 days in then TWANG!!
E six and D four stings suddenly let go.
Investigating the result
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Both broke where they bend around the main shaft by the looks.
I remember noticing some increased 'creaks' from this area over the past day.
I'm also using an el-cheapo "Darco" brand strings from JB-HiFi.

The action has risen somewhat and the saddles are in their lowest setting down on the body.
So I've put a shim in the neck and replaced the 2 strings.
I'll now give it another work-out and see if the issue recurs.
May have to try better quality strings...
Then if the problem persists perhaps some strengthening solder to that area of new strings.

cheers, Mark.

DrNomis_44
15-02-2020, 05:18 AM
Well I'm digging into whammy bar usage like never before.
Tuning is holding up quite well and I'm seriously considering getting a 'Tele' version...

5 days in then TWANG!!
E six and D four stings suddenly let go.
Investigating the result
33760
Both broke where they bend around the main shaft by the looks.
I remember noticing some increased 'creaks' from this area over the past day.
I'm also using an el-cheapo "Darco" brand strings from JB-HiFi.

The action has risen somewhat and the saddles are in their lowest setting down on the body.
So I've put a shim in the neck and replaced the 2 strings.
I'll now give it another work-out and see if the issue recurs.
May have to try better quality strings...
Then if the problem persists perhaps some strengthening solder to that area of new strings.

cheers, Mark.


How straight is the neck?, I'm suspecting that the reason why the action was getting a bit high is because the neck is developing a forward-bow, an electric guitar neck is actually supposed to have a very slight amount of forward bow to it, you can check it by putting a capo on the neck just behind the first fret, then fret each of the E-strings at about the 17th fret or just in front of the last fret at the heel end of the neck, and then use either a .01 inch, or a .012 inch automotive feeler gauge to check the gap between the underside of each of the E-strings and the 8th fret, and adjust the tension on the truss rod till the feeler gauge just fits in the gap.


Sometimes over time the slight forward bow in the neck gradually shifts according to the climate and you'll find that it affects the action.

king casey
15-02-2020, 05:37 AM
Thanks for the tip Doc.
I'll dig out my capo and check it out.
This neck was from another body and it does seem to fit in the pocket quite well.

Now where did I last put those feeler guages?

cheers, Mark.

Simon Barden
15-02-2020, 04:28 PM
They don't appear to be 'bad' strings (made by Martin). But upward trem use will put a lot more tension on the strings, so I'd try some of the more expensive string sets that are supposed to be able to take a lot more tension e.g D'addario NYXLs. Darco are probably fine for non-trem use.

Solder is fine for stopping string ends unwrapping, but it won't solve a problem like this - it's the centre core of the string that has broken and solder will have minimal effect, but will make the string less easy to bend.

Simon Barden
15-02-2020, 04:36 PM
I'd also check the saddles for any rough edges. You may need to sand them with some fine grit paper and apply some lube to them.

king casey
15-02-2020, 04:57 PM
I'd also check the saddles for any rough edges. You may need to sand them with some fine grit paper and apply some lube to them.

Hi Simon. Not having much to do with tremolo use, I wasn't aware of any string issues that may occur.
The saddles themselves have Graphite pins, and I did lube them with a concoction of Vaseline and Graphite.

I'll wait and see if the current strings break..(the 'A' string broke tonight the same as the E and D).

I've measured the string heights since I shimmed the neck and re-adjusted the bridge heights.

cheers, Mark.

Simon Barden
15-02-2020, 05:36 PM
Possibly the edge of the hole where the strings appear out of the block? The graphite block is on the top of the saddle, but the string also wraps around what appears to be a round bar at the back of the saddle, so there's some extra friction there. If the saddles are too far back, then the string is being pulled back before it can bend forward again.

Difficult to tell exactly where on the guitar bridge the string breaks are occurring without being there. Some people do report a lot of string breaks with it. As the saddles don't move (just the trem block), there's a lot more friction than with a normal Strat trem bridge.

It all looks overly complex to me.

Simon Barden
15-02-2020, 05:54 PM
So are the strings running more like 1 or 2? 1 is better for lower friction.

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king casey
15-02-2020, 06:11 PM
Hi Simon.
The strings are more like '1'.
Here's a side shot of the E 6 string.
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cheers, Mark.

Simon Barden
15-02-2020, 06:25 PM
Ah, that's OK then. Not sure at all now. Just try some new strings.

DrNomis_44
16-02-2020, 01:58 AM
I've found that I've very rarely broken a string just by playing a guitar, most of the time when I've actually broken a string, it has usually been when I'm either stretching them in, or when I'm tuning the strings up to pitch, and it's usually because the string has been either stretched to breaking point, or pinched by something, like a locking mechanism on a locking tuner, occasionally a string will break where there's a sharp edge that it's resting on, or there's a friction point making it stick, I've had very limited success with putting lubricants in the nut slots or in the saddles where the strings rest, I do remember seeing a mod you can do to a standard Strat bridge to reduce the likelyhood of string breakage, this involves removing the bridge plate from the sustain block (the big heavy piece of metal that the springs attach to) after removing the saddles, and then using a countersinking tool to put a chamfer on each of the holes that the strings pass through on their way to the saddles, doing this gets rid of any sharp edges.

king casey
16-02-2020, 03:35 AM
Thanks for the tips. I'll see out the few days it took for the first set to break...
I'll get a better quality brand to test, but will dismantle the bridge and see about smoothing any edges.
Meanwhile I'm thinking that it's realising the nature of heavy tremolo use and compensating budget.
Glad I'm not playing a 10 string pedal steel.

cheers, Mark.

king casey
08-03-2020, 05:13 AM
No more string breaking thus far, so on with the re-finish.
Removing the paint reveals that the body is 2 pieces of MDF sandwiched together.
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Sanded, filled all the holes.... and undercoat.
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Now that the pickguard blank has arrived, time to determine correct pick-up placement.
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cheers, Mark.

king casey
08-03-2020, 11:37 AM
After a bit more routing...
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cheers, Mark.

king casey
08-03-2020, 07:54 PM
Last one for the day...
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cheers, Mark.

blinddrew
09-03-2020, 02:46 AM
Shaping up nicely I reckon.

king casey
09-03-2020, 04:49 AM
Cheers, Drew.
Now comes the 'polarising' step...
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cheers, Mark.

Simon Barden
09-03-2020, 08:50 PM
Have you noticed that it's very green? HTH.

king casey
10-03-2020, 04:08 AM
hehe. I think a few clear coats may tone it down a tad.
I think I'll leave it matt.

Did a little research into more suitable strings for tremolo.
This one popped up first so it gets a trial run.
34060

cheers, Mark.

Bakersdozen
11-03-2020, 04:54 PM
I love the rotos [emoji16]

They seem to last longer and feel nice and bright for my playing style anyway.

king casey
23-03-2020, 06:41 AM
Cheers, Bakers.
I've had it back up and strumming for a week with no remissions.
Noticed with the Roto strings that there's very little if any 'creaks' when you use the whammy.
Despite measuring, the pickup placement good have been slightly better.
I'll leave tweaking that until I really need a new scratch plate.

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34206

That brings all my guitar mods to a close.

cheers, Mark.

Sonic Mountain
23-03-2020, 09:15 AM
Looks great. Seems like its always a game of averages with slanted single coils getting the strings to line up with the posts.

king casey
23-03-2020, 09:56 AM
Cheers, Sonic.
It always seems to be ever so slightly out no matter what.
In reflection, I could have moved the bridge southwards a millimeter to achieve the same result.
Anyway. I was using my government sanctioned hermit status to dabble in some recording.
Forgot all about the tremolo until most of the way through the solo section...oh well.
Next time.
https://www.soundclick.com/artist/default.cfm?bandid=757470

cheers, Mark.

Simon Barden
23-03-2020, 05:07 PM
Certainly got a nice, bright and twangy sound. Well done.

blinddrew
24-03-2020, 06:12 AM
That's a nice sound you've got there. :)

McCreed
24-03-2020, 06:40 AM
Nice do-over Mark!

It may just be the photo, but the string/neck alignment looks like it could go significantly more toward the treble E.
If that's the case, I think it would very nearly centre the string/pole piece alignment also.

king casey
24-03-2020, 06:47 AM
Thanks guys and for the time spent listening.
Yes McCreed...like I stated in post #37 I think the bridge could move south about a mm ( or 2).
Always seems to be 'just that bit out' whenever I attempt this.
I also should have made a pick-guard out of MDF like previous and then narrow down the adjustments for acrylic.

cheers, Mark.

P.S. a more 'tremolo' friendly tune would also be a better choice.

fender3x
27-03-2020, 07:16 AM
Sounds great, and I like the selections. Cissy Strut takes me back ;-)

As to the alignment, clearly there is no problem with the sound, and I admire you for trying. Every time I think about aligning those little biddy dots under the strings, I come to the same conclusion...

1st build

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2nd build

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Current build

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...so you're braver than me ;-)

king casey
27-03-2020, 07:43 AM
Hey that's cheating!! hehe.

What I would like is a budget to get 'upmarket' pickups happening.

cheers, Mark.

That's given me an idea...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ST-No-Hole-Plastic-Sealed-Pickup-Cover-Closed-Single-Coil-Cover-for-Strat-Chrome/262052376933?hash=item3d0389f165:g:tG0AAOSwEetV-m3W

fender3x
27-03-2020, 09:47 AM
Problem solved!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

diamondsky
29-03-2020, 04:46 PM
Hi Mark
Just looking at a new Tele build- really enjoyed your build diary why did you change the Pitbull neck? and was it a good choice

king casey
29-03-2020, 06:01 PM
Hi Mark
Just looking at a new Tele build- really enjoyed your build diary why did you change the Pitbull neck? and was it a good choice

Hi Diamondsky. Cheers.

My issues became apparent when I decided to fit a 'Fender' bridge.
I got OCD about getting the scratch plate and bridge fitted aesthetically.
The neck in itself was O.K. but only 21 frets and a few mm too short to get correct proportion with the scratchplate and bridge.
I think you'll see the images on page 9 post #86 in that build diary.

The neck I replaced it with was 22 frets and solved that issue.

cheers, Mark.

king casey
16-07-2020, 03:35 PM
Time to fix a few issues.
Neck pickup sitting a couple of mm too far south.
Bridge sitting a mm too far north.

Whilst addressing these I think time to do the 'Grant's Neck mod'.
Also wasn't terribly happy with the paint. Neither Seafoam nor Surf green, so now that the blue Epiphone has gone...
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I don't think it will improve Simon's impression however.

cheers, Mark.

Simon Barden
16-07-2020, 04:41 PM
I really can't do impressions.

"You dirty. Rat".

"Play it again, Dave".

So you're right. My impressions haven't improved.

Nicer colour though.

king casey
16-07-2020, 05:58 PM
I really can't do impressions.


Nicer colour though.

I dunno, you've spelled them (mostly) correct.
It was your professed distaste for 'metallic paint'.

Anyway...memories

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6i9_G2mOYU

cheers, Mark.

Simon Barden
16-07-2020, 07:11 PM
Ah, true. I'm not a great fan of metallics on guitars, but that is a nice colour. A bit darker than Pelham Blue, which always looks rather a 'meh' colour to me.

Those Holsten ads were great.

This was my favourite.


http://youtu.be/Jd0twblMeLk

I used to see Griff Rees-Jones quite a lot as my office (or quite a few years) was right next to his house in London and we frequented the same Indian restaurant (not that I ever spoke to him).

king casey
26-07-2020, 01:57 PM
That's interesting Simon. I'm guessing he came across as 'unapproachable'.

Anyway, I've finally got this guitar to the point where I'm quite happy with it.
Didn't re-cut yet another scratch plate as the neck pickup only needs a slight nudge northwards.
Bridge is now in the correct position and the colour is within acceptable range.

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cheers, Mark.

McCreed
26-07-2020, 02:17 PM
Can't wait to see the next version!!! (just kidding :p)


Didn't re-cut yet another scratch plate as the neck pickup only needs a slight nudge northwards.

If you're referring the string/pole piece alignment, I doubt very very much you would hear a difference if you did move it that 1-2mm.
In this case it's really just an visual/aesthetic thing. The high E is well enough within the magnetic field to generate an adequate signal. I've seen production guitars that aren't any worse.

king casey
26-07-2020, 02:34 PM
Hi McCreed. Yeah it's purely down to OCD.
Not worth messing about with this time hehe.
Have to find some other project to 're-do' now.
Maybe time to move the Squire Bronco bass and make room for something more useable.

One more for posterity...
36676

cheers, Mark.