Why does it sound different on the Radio...

[Marcel]

For a bit of perspective about digital audio, I recommend this video. It's over 20 minutes in duration, but well worth the time.

The presenter is Chris "Monty" Montgomery, the creator of the Ogg Vorbis container and codec. He knows his stuff, and has quite an engaging presenting style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

.

Yep, definitely worth watching... as is his other 'introduction' video...

Can't imagine him doing a 'pedal review' video...

[Marcel]

For a bit of perspective about digital audio, I recommend this video. It's over 20 minutes in duration, but well worth the time.

The presenter is Chris "Monty" Montgomery, the creator of the Ogg Vorbis container and codec. He knows his stuff, and has quite an engaging presenting style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

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Just watched the video again... and something 'clicked' as I tried to place what he was saying into a real world context...

Much of the modern guitar sounds involve distortion, which typically is some form of clipping of a guitars essentially sine wave signal and turning it into a modified square wave. And in the video we can easily see the difference of a square wave once it has passed through a 20kHz bandwidth limited A to D to A conversion process. Maybe it is those differences that some can hear with Digital audio vs the all analogue LP vinyl record domain.

At the same time I've noticed and I'd like to point out is that those songs that do sound good on radio and TV were more often than not actually were mixed for those mediums. With the advent of 'Garage Band' and the plethora of other home recording studio applications much of what is being committed to HDD is done in a way that sounds good for YouTube or a Podcast and sadly is not tailored at all for previous generation broadcast mediums like radio or TV. The success or failure of any track weighs heavily on any particular tailoring of its sound and the medium it's broadcast on so the tailoring in itself is fair enough, but to me it is small minded to tailor for one at the exclusion of the other as due to medium 'limitations' this eventually will limit the potential listening audience of that track... A good positive case to employ a reputable mix engineer to re-record your home studio demo's before getting them professionally mastered before broadcast distribution...

Just saying...

[corsair]

I've heard the arguments many, many times and whilst I can appreciate the sound of a record on a turntable, or the sound of a CD on decent gear, I'm afraid I have succumbed to the ease of .mp3.
The reality of vinyl is that you need mega expensive kit to really appreciate the values, and a dedicated space to put the turntable which weighs as much as Mars, a quality valve pre-amp and amplifier and speakers the size of an arena PA! Well not quite the PA, but high quality gear none-the-less! Personally, I have neither the room for such a set-up in my house nor the wherewithal to purchase it! Too many other things clamouring for my time and dosh!
I have far too many CDs and records that require storage and in fact, one box of records has followed us around the world and hasn't been opened for 15 years!!
.mp3s fill my requirements these days quite happily, storage of the thousands of albums, songs and tunes is my phone... or the desktop... or the Cloud and they can be accessed so easily; my car has a dedicated iPod hardwired into it and all I have to do to update it is have the car close enough to the house wi-fi; I mean, just how easy is that?!

I wonder, too, at the snobbery involved in the whole thing; it really does smack of the whole Gibson/Fender .v. everyone else debate... or the neckthrough .vs. bolt on neck discussion... natural finish .v. painted finish argument, eh!!

There's something for everyone out there to listen to their music; all the facts and figures are, for the most part, meaningless when everyones ears are different, and their brains process information in different ways!

I love that I can play anything I want, when I want and where I want, but equally, love that should I feel inclined, I can get the gear to do justice to my records!

As always, YMMV....

[dave.king1]

I play all of my mixes through a number of different systems and environments from buds to car stereo on CD to various home systems in both mono and stereo, I'm getting to the point now where I know which sound through my monitors is the one that passes the test across all environments.

Back in the 70s I got my guitar amp fixed by a company called Alan White (or Wright) Electronics the did high end HiFi gear, turntable, preamp, amp and speakers ran to close to $20K in 1976, the speakers were called Time Windows and looked like the folding screens people got changed behind in 1930s movies. Something like $10K a pair back then, from memory they were electrostatic speakers

Fair to say I've never heard anything that sounded that good

[Marcel]

I play all of my mixes through a number of different systems and environments from buds to car stereo on CD to various home systems in both mono and stereo, I'm getting to the point now where I know which sound through my monitors is the one that passes the test across all environments.

Back in the 70s I got my guitar amp fixed by a company called Alan White (or Wright) Electronics the did high end HiFi gear, turntable, preamp, amp and speakers ran to close to $20K in 1976, the speakers were called Time Windows and looked like the folding screens people got changed behind in 1930s movies. Something like $10K a pair back then, from memory they were electrostatic speakers

Fair to say I've never heard anything that sounded that good

I remember those from back in the early '80's... Electrostatic speakers... 400mm wide by 2m high by 10cm deep black panels with a 1x12 bass speaker each side for below 200Hz. A mate of mine had a set called the "Model 8" costing over AU$8k a set back then made by I don't know who. My Mazda RX4 back then only cost AU$4k

He sat me down one day to have a listen to a DDD recording of Godley & Creame album on CD through his fully/completely DC coupled 200W/ch sound system. And when I say DC coupled I do mean he removed every capacitor in the audio path between the D/A converter in the CD player and the speakers. It was rather un-nerving hearing the exact placement of all the instruments in the stereo image presented to my brain, but the topper was actually hearing the main mic fader open with the studio room noise it brings and having a full volume voice singing solidly at you from what sounded like only 6cm away. Imagine your head being exactly where the vocal mic was when the song was recorded...

From that day on I FULLY understood what even the slightest phase shift between L & R channels in a stereo pair can do... By comparison, these days most "Stereos" including most studios I hear barely graduate past mono in quality...

[BuffaloGhost]

Really interesting article and response. Ive never claimed to understand the numbers in compression and limiting. I follow some guides and make sure the wave is not squashed but I find its easy for me to overdo compression. When listening back to mixes in the car Im usually listening to it at full blast just to get it to a level that I can hear everything - i dont boost the gain on any of my final output as ive often found that it just sounds distorted in places.. i know mastering is a "dark art"

Id rather it be a bit quiet rather than distorted. it would be good to know how to get an undistorted sound but just louder...

[dave.king1]

Editing and mixing should be done at levels you can hold a comfortable conversation over through speakers that are as flat as possible and use your interface for monitoring as well as input the D/A converter is much higher quality that your PC motherboard.

Many soundcards are optimised for gaming etc so won't give you the flat response you need.

Your meters are only a guide, your ears or many sets of ears through many sets of speakers do a better job of finalising your mix.

A/B your mix with a commercial CD that has the sound you are looking for.

It's not a black art just good listening and knowing what your plugins do

[BuffaloGhost]

I try to listen through many speakers and headphones. From my Yamaha studio monitors to earbuds. Shure headphones and my iPhone speakers. I’m happy most of the time.


As you say. It’s knowing what the plug ins are doing

Which sometimes is my downfall. I use my ears more than looking at the numbers.

Thanks for the advice.


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[Marcel]

One of the 'pet hates' of the professionals in the media is poor control of audio levels. By this I mean the final VU level that a track is mastered at, and the peak levels contained within that average VU level.. In my years in commercial TV and radio the operators would tweak and adjust to try and help the supplied material sound reasonable on air, however all too often what was broadcast IMHO was carp. Not Flake or Barra, nah, it was carp...

While metering these days in the world of the 'home studio' is almost a haphazard affair there was a time in the not too distant past where it was not uncommon for a professional audio person to be strongly criticized and often ostracised for providing or distributing mastered material that didn't meter within 3dB of 0VU, or material that had peaks greater than 10dB above 0VU. A good audio person should be able to get those two figures within range on any master they send out, sadly that no longer seems to be the case with the excuse of "artful discretion" being the most often cited reason for departure from the media norm...

I and many others completely understand the "artful discretion" thing, but unfortunately the mincer that is the commercial media, that is YouTube, that is Spotify, all of them don't give a damn. Many many years of 'broadcasting to the world' by these media and all those systems have been built and setup with 'Standard' audio levels in mind. A Standard that was set before most of us were born and prefers average audio levels up to but below 0VU, and with peaks no more than 10dB above that..

For everyone's info... 0VU is the point where typically the colour of the audio meter changes, usually this change is from Green to Red. When you watch the meter in action you'll see a solid lit section and often a dot that seems to hang in there for a second. The solid lit section is the average audio level at that time, and the dot is the peak level contained within the averaged audio. Consider a guitar playing a sustained note while a snare drum it struck, the guitar note will essentially set the average level while the snare will be the peak within that average.

"Yeah, on my system those meter thingies just light up. I don't care cos it still sounds good"... Well, I can't argue the point as if it sounds good then all must be good, but not quite. You may have success uploading your track to Spotify or YouTube, but on the off chance you send a copy of your beloved track to Sony Music or Paramount pictures and they want to use it there is a high chance that they will tell you to go back to the studio and re-record it due to 'technical issues' on your original digital release. They could fix it but most likely they won't, and despite you giving permission they won't take a copy off YouTube or Spotify. Nope, you'll have to go through the whole recording process again with the meters reading correctly if your amazing track is ever to be the soundtrack to that latest release block buster movie...

"The world is against me, they're stifling my creativity"... Nope again !... It's just the way the hardware works at the big end of town. The end of town where the BIG money is... If you can make your creativity fit within the confines of all these mediums then there will never be a reason for them to tell you to do your homework again, and it will be first time every time forever for you ...

[BuffaloGhost]

I know what you mean. I was always told either when mixing or before sending a mix to a mastering engineer - peaking just over 0db. If it goes into the yellow or red a touch then fine but “headroom headroom headroom” and it’s what I’ve always tried to stick to.

Then I look at the entire wave afterwards and see where it’s peaking for a final output.

Probably why my mixes sound quiet on Spotify and iTunes. But they sound clear which is the most important thing.

I’m learning tonnes the more I do. I write tracks that are quite heavy on orchestral instruments too so trying to fan those out in the stereo field is always a good challenge and they sound great.


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