Help with types of paints

[Joe3334]

Hi all

Acquiring paint to finish my guitar seems to be harder and more expensive than I thought. Originally I was going to use rustoleum gray flat primer, Dulux Duramax metallic blue for the colour coat, and Dulux Duramax 2k clear gloss for the topcoat. I know for a fact that these 3 combinations of paint would work as I have seen physical evidence of them working together (thanks to a friend) despite the Dulux colour coat being enamel based and the rustoleum primer being ????? based. Using these paints would obviously give me a nice looking finish (if done right) however these paints are too expensive for me... the worst culprit is the 2k clear coming in at $26 for only 125g in a can and was told by a worker at Bunnings that it would only give me 2 coats. I have seen other paints being used to acquire a nice finish e.g. Phrozin and his incredible looking guitars. He said that when he was too lazy to bring out the spray guns he would use SCA (super cheap auto) acrylic clear. It's good stuff from what I can see and it's only $12.59 for 400g. Significantly better value for money compared to the Dulux Duramax 2k clear. I know that an acrylic topcoat isn't compatible with an enamel colour coat and an acrylic colour coat isn't compatible with the rustoleum primer (so I've been told) so my long awaiting question is.... if I want to use automotive acrylic clear over an automotive acrylic colour coat then I'd need to use an automotive acrylic undercoat right? So can I just spray an automotive acrylic undercoat over the rustoleum primer (yes it was already sprayed on before this saga) or do I need to sand the rustoleum primer off.

I will praise whoever reads this and hopefully answers my question.

EDIT: rustoleum primer's resin type is acrylic modified alkyd and the solvents are acetone, xylene. Still not sure if it's acrylic based or not

[Joe3334]

According to this slightly confusing matirx, I can paint enamel colour over my ?lacquer? based primer (I have seen physical evidence of this) and I can also paint acrylic over any acrylic, enamel, or lacquer based primer? Can someone confirm?

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/paint.htm

EDIT: according to other Internet forums, rustoleum primer is enamel based. So I'm assuming an acrylic colour coat wouldn't work?

[Dedman]

from my experience ( and I will not quote any science because I'm with you on the "I've seen it work" front).
You can paint most things over the top of most primers. I say most because I haven't tried every combo possible on the planet.
I have put enamel clear over acrylic colour on countless occasions. ( Dulux timber clear( brush on or rattle can) over car acrylics).
My advice is test it on some scrap. If its going to bubble and react it will happen fairly quickly.
I've used the auto spray cans and never had any issues

the clear on this is rattle can enamel over dabbed on auto acrylic on a rattle can black base

[Sonic Mountain]

If you've seen them work together, then give it a go. All of us have had mishaps, which is why you are getting cautious responses. If I haven't tried something myself, I'm not going to recommend it.

As I said in your other thread. As long as the primer is really dry it should be OK. Paint is made of three basic components. Pigment - to give colour, Binder to stick it to the surface and solvent, to makes it a liquid form - which evaporates away (outgassed/cures) leaving the finish behind.

The biggest problem with mixing paints is that different solvents don't usually play well together. Primers are fairly porous, they don't need to seal, they are providing a grabbing surface for the top coats. So the solvent drys out of them much quicker than a gloss top coat. 90% of the time, so long as the primer is cured, you can spray most top coats on it.

Doing a test isn't a bad idea, its just patience waiting for it to cure before testing your topcoat. Cheaper in the long run than stuffing it up.

I am currently using Rustoleum over SCA primers and fillers. I am a bit of a stickler for drying times, so my base was well and truly cured before top coats and there was no problem. There seems to be a decent range of Rustoleum colours, is there nothing that tickles your fancy?

I used it because it was the cheapest way to get the colour I wanted, but I'm not sure I'll use it again. The coverage out of the can is great, but it's also very orange peely and takes ages to dry out properly. The next one I paint I'm going to build a spray booth and use my gun. The difference between that and rattle cans is night and day and I'm starting to think its worth that effort.

[Joe3334]

Thanks for the advice Sonic Mountain, it's greatly appreciated. Rustoleum have plenty of colours that appeal to me but I need the colour coat to be acrylic based so I've gone with Colorspec, they offer regular acrylic base coats and they also offer a regular acrylic clear and a 2k acrylic clear. They also mix paint while you wait to whatever colour you want.