The end of Rosewood

[adam]

Ok, thanks Guys, I'll get a full piece of Rosewood to DB and Carl. Tony, are you ok with the "Ebony"? I think it's the same wood, just coloured darker.

The other rosewood piece I'll cut in thirds and send a piece to Simon, Gavin B and Brendan. Simon, a small piece will save me some Intl postage, so thanks for the suggestion.

Sorted

[Simon Barden]

Going by the website, it's going to be a softwood fibre pulp mixed with a natural resin plus some dye, so it should all be the same consistency, regardless of the colour. I'm very interested to have a look at it.

[vh2580]

Adam

Ebony coloured is fine.

Doing a Blackwood neck for this, this weekend so will be able to use pretty much straight away.

[nDR01d]

This may seem like an naive question, but why do we have to go through this process now (ie: certificates etc) for Rosewood, but not for Ebony - which have several species listed as either vunerable or endangered? Maybe don't ask Dept. Of Ag. or we'll start certificates on Ebony too

[dingobass]

This may seem like an naive question, but why do we have to go through this process now (ie: certificates etc) for Rosewood, but not for Ebony - which have several species listed as either vunerable or endangered? Maybe don't ask Dept. Of Ag. or we'll start certificates on Ebony too

It is actually CITES that determines which timbers are endangered, it is then up to individual Governments to enforce any restrictions or bans. ( thats my understanding anyways, quite happy to be corrected on this)
Unfortunately most African countries are not interested in preserving tree species that have a commercial value, hence Ebony is not protected yet.

[Simon Barden]

From reading on the CITES webpage, CITES protection seems to be a two-way thing. A country can ask for certain of its wood species to be put on the CITES list to help stop illegal logging in that country, whilst I'm sure CITES keeps an eye on the global situation and suggests to countries that it would be a good idea if they put a species on the list (otherwise I'm sure the recent global Rosewood listing would not have taken place on a unilateral basis). A country can opt out or defer implementation of a listing (as India deferred its Rosewood listing for 6 months) but most generally see it as a good thing.

Some Ebony is on the CITES list: CITES ebony list. As always, there are many varieties of ebony (genus Diospyros) and there is one variety Diospyros Ferra that is on CITES list II just about everywhere it's grown (including a lot of Africa). Otherwise, all Madagascan ebony is CITES II listed and Sri Lankan ebony is simply a banned wood and can't be cut down, so isn't available. These countries were the two major ebony suppliers.

Also, a lot of the Madagascan ebony CITES listings came into effect in mid-2013, so most suppliers will still have a lot of old logs drying out. But once that supply is gone, then most ebony will need certification.

But a lot of the non-listed ebony isn't the dense black wood you normally think of, but a very pretty, highly figured with obvious light to dark brown patterns, but still with a very closed grain and minimal pores, making it a lot smoother than rosewood for fretboards. However it's hard to work, and a lot of industries prefer a less figured look, so isn't that popular as a general wood. In fact, a lot of this type of wood had simply been thrown away in the past, as not all of the 'black ebony' trees had dark wood all the way through (normally just the central core), so any non-black wood was discarded.

[euroa guitars]

The factory I've been talking to in China about Rosewood and CITES and what options they have for dark wood sent me the following message about Ebony and how they see its export.......

"Frankly speaking, ebony has been listed on CITES II many year ago. Recently, the exportation of ebony will be
influenced a little bit due to rosewood issue."

[Simon Barden]

I've just received my sample in the post. It looks pretty good, even close up. I had an immediate use for a small slice of it as I am working on a mates steel resonator, and needed a thin piece of wood to replace a small wooden block that had fallen out that was actually what the end strap pin screwed into. A bit of sanding to give it a slight wedge shape and it fitted in perfectly between the body and the top wooden support beam. It's now being glued in place.

First observations are:

1. The dust is evil. Because it's soft wood in a resin material, the resin takes on a static charge and so the dust sticks to everything.
2. There's not as much 'give' in it as with normal wood. I drilled a normal sized hole (3mm) for the strap pin screw to go in, but I couldn't screw it in very far before it became too tough to do, so had to use a 3.5mm drill before it would screw in. So it looks like it should hold fret tangs in well (radiusing a piece and putting in a couple of frets is my next task, if I can find my spare fret wire).
3. Cutting through it with a normal tenon saw, the sides of the cuts on the top surface tended to 'chip' rather than make splinters. Not big chips, but I think you'd need a very sharp fret saw in order to make clean cuts that didn't have any visible chip indents that weren't covered by the fret.
4. I tried putting lemon oil on a piece (as unsuspecting people might well do). It went very dark and whilst not completely sitting on the surface, it didn't look like it was sinking in much either. As the moisture in the wood is pretty much sealed in by the resin, it shouldn't dry out, so oiling won't be needed. The oil will eventually evaporate so it's not the end of the world if it happens, but it's best not to do it.
5. It doesn't smell like wood when cut. It's not unpleasant, but it's not that attractive either.

[dave.king1]

I wonder what's in the binding resin, I know I'm generalising here but Aisia is generally not highly regarded in terms of health and welfare when it comes to manufacturing materials & content.

Sincerely hope I'm wrong but using BA when cutting or sanding may be a good idea

[Simon Barden]

It's supposed to be a 'natural' resin, according to the manufacturer's web site. But 'natural' doesn't stop the dust from having possible harmful effects.

Certainly dust masks and protective eyewear should be used for any dust-producing woodworking process. No dust is good for your lungs, and just about all types of wood dust have some form of toxic effect on the human body.